bomba!oi exthroi tis ATI panyghrizoun!

[Thresh]

apo oti 8ymamai h FX5200 uposthrizei PS2...anyway katalaves ti 8elw na pw...twra gia to an 8es na paizeis ligo den to kanei TOSO shmantiko feature...

[epote]

Isos esu na sunexiseis na xrisimopoiheis Pixel Shaders v2.0!Magkia sou!Provlima sou! Gia tous allous den boreis na gnorizeis.

 

"looooooool thats tEh bistest BS ive heard in a loooooooooooong time!!!"

to "ive" pragmatika mou arese.

 

megale thelo na mou peis pragmatika pou sth douleia sou xrhshmopoieis ps3

 

oxi oxi

 

pes mou pou sth douleia sou xrhshmopoieis ps2 kai me poio tropo....

 

MY8O$: tin epomeni fora an 8es min peis pali auto, alla pes pia features vriskeis pio sumadika.Anefere ta...

Gi auta pou les gia tous PS3 exeis dikio. To epidi einai pio argoi simenei oti den prepei na tous xrisimophoume?den eipes kati teteio to ksero. aplos ego 8a i8ela na exo mia karta me PS3.0 na "paizo" ligo.

 

telika to thes gia th douleia sou h gia na "paizeis"?

 

lol, get real dwogz

[giorgos_g]

Den pa na lete oti thelete... exo perasi apo ola ta modela tis nvidia, molis dokimasa ati, emina eki...

Tora gia to ti leei o tom... einai gnosto oti opios tou kani pola dorakia grafi kai kala pragmatakia

[MY80-]

MY8O$: tin epomeni fora an 8es min peis pali auto, alla pes pia features vriskeis pio sumadika.Anefere ta...

FP blending/filtering ? Sigoura tha xreiastoune gia standarized morfh HDR (ki opws to kovw....pros hdr kai global illumination vadizoume) kai SIGOURA tha einai kai pio grhgora sthn ektelesh, kai tha kanoun th zwh twn programmatistwn pio eukolh.

 

To epidi einai pio argoi simenei oti den prepei na tous xrisimophoume?den eipes kati teteio to ksero.

Th stigmh pou akoma kai h monadikh karta pou ypostirizei ps3, borei na paragei to idio mathimatika apotelesma pou ths epitrepoun oi ps3, me ps2 kai kalyterh apodwsh, mallon einai sxetika axrhstoi, an h apodwsh pou epideiknyoun twra einai toso konta sta oria tou hardware, oso, as poume h apodwsh ths idias kartas se ps2. H monh kapws logikh xrhsh pou borw na skeftw me ta paronta dedomena einai an (poly megalo an auto) h nvidia ftiaxei ton compiler ths arketa kala (metatrepontas eswterika ps3 kwdika se ps2, px spazontas ta branches se xexwristous shader ktl) kai kataferei na trexei ps3 se idia taxythta me ps2, isws na kanei ligaki pio eukolh th zwh twn developers...

 

Tbh, sta matia mou, h ypostirixh ps3 auth th stigmh kai sto sygekrimeno hardware einai sxedon toso axrhsth (kai marketing-oriented) oso o f-buffer...toulaxiston exoume dei demakia, kati einai ki auto

 

aplos ego 8a i8ela na exo mia karta me PS3.0 na "paizo" ligo.

Na ypothesw oti asxoleisai me 3d programmatismo? Gia "ekpaideytikous" skopous ontws den antilegw oti h hardware ypostirixh ps3 borei na exei kapoia xrhsh

[unre@l]

Epote: exeis katadisei asteios. Gi auto den sou apadao. An 8es pragmatika na ma8eis leptomereies gia tin "douleia" mou steile PM na rotiseis kai in kaneis san mikro pedaki.

 

MY8O$: Exeis odos apoluto dikio gia to HDR. Sto melon 8a einai ena apo ta "MUST" stis 3D Engines. Kai vevea opos katalaves einai gia ekpedeftikous skopous. Giati na min ma8o na tous xrisimopoio? Den boro na katalavo idika tin adidrasi tou epote. 8elo na ma8o na xrisimopoio kai genikos na "pekso" me PS3. pou sto kalo einai to provlima? etsi goustaro!protimisi mou! gnomi mou! aman pia! olo kapoios edo mesa 8a exei oreksi gia kavga! ELEOS!kapoioi prepei na sovareftoun edo mesa.

Pistevo na ekleise to 8ema "Giati o Unre@l 8elei PS3.0 stin karta grafikon tou"

[epote]

unre@l, kanenas den exei oreksh gia kavga

 

kano mia logikotath erotish

 

"pou xrhshomoieis ps3 sth douleia sou?"

 

kai perimeno mia logikh apantish

 

meta les oti thes tous ps3 giati etsi goustareis, gia ekpaideytikous skopous kai den diafono KATHOLOU. Gia thn akrivia simfono apolita, kala kaneis kai tous mathaineis, h ellada xreiazete programmatistes tetoious

 

to kolima mou htan h "anagaiotita". Otan akoma megaloi developers den xrhshmopoioun ps3 pouthena mou fainete ligo travigmeno na tous xrhshmopoieis esy

 

mporei na kano kai tragiko lathos fysika, eksou kai rotao

[unre@l]

den exeis oreksi gia kavga?

auto giati to eipes?

"looooooool thats tTh bigest BS ive heard in a looooooooon time"

ti shmenei to "BS" epote?

 

"lol, get real dwogz"

 

Tora to gurizeis?Exeis arxeisei na ginesai polu asteios. den sou apadao. mono ama pou stileis PM xoris na to pezeis epsipnos 8a sou apadiso.

Kai nai.. borei na min tous xrisimopoioun oi megaloi programmatistes (auto den ksero pou to exeis ma8ei kai an eisai sigouros gi auto) alla ego 8elo na tous ma8o!!! Epilogi mou! Gnomi mou! Protimisi mou! Ama esu ma8eneis oti ma8enoun oi megaloi programmatistes den kanoun oloi etsi!ELEOS! Kai episis pou ediksa "anagaiotita"? Grapse mou tis grammes giati pragmatika dn eksero pou to eides. Kai ama fanike kapou auto sou leo tora oti den i8ela na dikso anagkeotita pou8ena. Aplos eipe oti an itan TORA na dialekso mia apo tis X800 kai 6800 8a dialega tin deuteri logo ton PS3.0 kai vevea auto pou polu sosta eipe o MY8O$ gia to HDR klp.. (an kai omologo oti an kai ksero oti isxuei den to exo psaksei(peri HDR) oste na boro na po perisotera).

Giati na paro tin X800 pou se features einai xeiroteri apo tin 6800? Kai min mou peis gia taxitita.. kai h 6800 borei na min einai pio grigori apo tin X800 alla sigoura pio grigori apo 9800.

Telos sou ksanaleo.. an pragmatika 8es na ma8eis ti tous 8elo steile mou PM.

Kai apla min sinexiseis na grafeis edo oste na min sunexistei h "adipara8esi"

[Thresh]

ta panta einai upokeimenika [email protected] shmainei swnei kai kala epeidh 8es na asxolh8eis me PS3 oti h 6800 einai kalyterh apo thn X800...(twra 8a mou peis oute to anti8eto isxyei ara to mono pou menei einai na vgoun oles oi ekdoseis kai na te8oun upo "antikeimeniko benchmarking", dld oxi apo to tom's hardware )

[unre@l]

mallon diavazeis ta post mou polu viastika thresh.

den eipa oti h 6800 einia kaluteri apo tin X800 gi auto!

EIPA OTI H 6800 EINAI KALYTERH G I A E M E N A gia tin douleia mou! gi auto pou kano! me simferei perisotero! !to katalaves tora?

[Thresh]

oops leptomereies

 

tote paw paso sorry (ti douleia ? )

[MY80-]

Giati na paro tin X800 pou se features einai xeiroteri apo tin 6800? Kai min mou peis gia taxitita.. kai h 6800 borei na min einai pio grigori apo tin X800 alla sigoura pio grigori apo 9800.

Proswpika pali, den pisteyw oti einai dynaton na peis oti mia karta A einai xeiroterh apo mia karta B otan exoun prwtovgei. Gia na to prosarmwsw sto twrino paradeigma, an oi devs meinoun se ps2, arxisoun na xrhsimopoioun 3dc, ftiaxei ligaki h ati to temporal aa, h ms prosferei ypostirixh gia wm decoding/encoding accel meso videoshaders ktl, h x800 tha einai kalyterh se features. Apo thn allh, an oi devs arxisoun na xrhsimopoioun HDR me fp blending, arxisoun na xrhsimopoioun SM3, h nvidia kanei expose to video enc/dec assistance (olo xexnaw to marketing name tou ) se windows, arxisoun na xrhsimopoioun ultrashadow ktl, ta kalytera features tha ta exei h 6800.

 

Oson afora tous ps3 (ante pali to idio thema ) an proswpika tha eprepe na kanw mia provlepsh, tha elega oti h HLSL tha exei wrimasei arketa prin doume kapoia karta, apo opoiadhpote etairia, pou na mas dinei ena logo gia th xrhsh ps3 (na einai poio grhgoroi apo tous ps2 dld) opote an htan na mathw kati...tha prosanatolizomouna pros th HLSL. Parola auta, den eimai h litsa patera opote apodexomai oti h sygekrimenh provlepsh einai apla mia provlepsh. Apo thn allh, an thes apla na deis pws douleyoun ta prammata kai oi shaders genika, de borw na pw oti tha htan axrhsto na deis pws paizoun oi ps3 se pio xamhlo epipedo apo ths hlsl

[unre@l]

den boro na katalavo to skeptiko sou.. den milao gia taxitita alla gia upostiriksi... mou les oti an grafoun se PS2.0 tote 8a exei provadisma h X800! giati? afou kai h 6800 upostirizei PS2.0. Ksenaleo gia xiliosti fira. EMENA DEN ME ENDIAFEREI H TAXYTHTA! Den ksero ti endiaferei tous allous, Pados emena OXI!eno h X800 den upostirizei kan PS3.0.

den milao gia taxitita alla gia upostiriksi... den boro na katalavo to skeptiko sou.... tespa..

to 8ema elikse... EGO (kai ksanaleo EGO) 8a protimousa tin 6800 gia EKPEDEFTIKOUS skopous. Afiste to 8ema etsi giati pragmatika den vgenei akri. Alla leo alla katalavenete. kai alla lete kai alla katalaveno. Aplos Elikse. STOP! .- <--- (auto einai teleia kai pavla!)

[Johny4]

Αν θες 6800 μπορείς να τις πάρεις από το hardshop.gr.

[unre@l]

? den katalava tin protasi sou file. Alla den grafo pou8ena oti 8elo na paro tin 6800. Aplos diavase ligotero viastika ta threads.

[MY80-]

mou les oti an grafoun se PS2.0 tote 8a exei provadisma h X800! giati? afou kai h 6800 upostirizei PS2.0. Ksenaleo gia xiliosti fira. EMENA DEN ME ENDIAFEREI H TAXYTHTA!

Ypethesa oti prospathouses na sygrineis tis kartes antikeimenika, an ennoouses oti gia esena to nv40 exei kalytera features tote zhtw sygnwmh, ypethesa lathos.

den boro na katalavo to skeptiko sou.... tespa..

to 8ema elikse... EGO (kai ksanaleo EGO) 8a protimousa tin 6800 gia EKPEDEFTIKOUS skopous.

Gia na mhn berdeyomaste....den prospathei kaneis na sou epivalei ti tha eprepe na thes, egw toulaxiston, efoson mou les "thelw thn X karta gia auto, auto ki auto" eimai apolyta kallymenos. Den katakrinw thn epilogh sou, apla ekferw to skeptiko mou gia tous ps3, mias kai eftase h syzhthsh mexri ekei.

Afiste to 8ema etsi giati pragmatika den vgenei akri. Alla leo alla katalavenete. kai alla lete kai alla katalaveno.

Tha prospathisw mia teleytaia fora na to exhghsw oso apla borw mhpws kai to katalaveis, den prospathw na se kanw na to apodexteis ws swsto, apla na katalaveis ti thelw na pw kai pros apofygh parexhghsewn, de milaw gia to ti tha eprepe na thes esy, afou thes na paixeis me ps3, thes na paixeis me ps3, paei kai teliwse kai mou ftanei kai periseyei ki olas, milaw gia to ps3 implementation tou nv40 kai to ti yper/kata exei se sxesh me to ps2 implementation tou idiou chip.

 

To ps3 model einai ena superset tou ps2 model. H kyria diafora tous einai yposthrixh loops kai branches sto ps3. Na to kanw pio liana, ps3 xwris loops/branches = ps2, kai apo meria kwdika (ektws apo to header tha einai bit-to-bit idios), kai apo meria yposthrixhs (an allaxeis to header sto header tou ps2, tha trexei se nv3x/r3xx) kai apo meria exodou (to image pou tha einai to apotelesma tou shader tha einai ki auto bit-to-bit idio). Ta loops kai ta branches exyphteroun 2 skopous, o prwtos einai h TAXYTHTA kai o deyteros einai h EUKOLIA ston programmatismo. As tous analysoume loipon sto ps3 implementation tou nv40.

 

Taxythta:As paroume gia paradeigma enan fantastiko shader 64, single-cycle gia to nv40, entolwn, oi opoies oles, gia xarh tou paradeigmatos, einai co-issueable (dld to nv40 borei na xrhsimopoihsei tis pipelines tou me 100% apodwtikothta dinontas mas 2 single-cycle entoles ana pipeline ana clock) kai to co-issueing to analamvanei o compiler ths nvidia. As ypothesoume oti kapou mesa sto shader mas yparxoun periptwseis pou 5 apo autes tis entoles (oi opoies einai kai sth seira gia na mas voleyoun) tha htan axrhstes, opote tis vazoume se ena branch. opote exoume

 

PS2

 

entolh1

entolh2

...

entolh64

 

synolo:64 cycles o shader.

 

PS3

 

entolh1

entolh2

if (condition) then { entolh3....entolh8 } (teliws tyxaio to syntax mou)

entolh9

...

entolh64

 

Symfwna me to documentation ths nvidia, to kathe branch mas trwei 9 cycles, opote exoume exoume 68 cycles (64 o shader - 5 pou phdame +9 tou branch).

 

Theoritika, apetyxe to sygekrimeno stoxo....kai praktika an lavoume ypopshn ta ps3-nv40-optimized results gia to shadermark pou eixe postarei o Tb sto b3d.

 

 

EYKOLIA:Opws exoume pei, h ypostirixh yparxei opote fysika to sygekrimeno stoxo ton petyxainei.

 

 

Symperasma: Efoson ta twrina dedomena einai antiprosopeytika (den ennow oti de tha anevei h taxythta tou ps3, an kai sto paradeigma pou edwsa to nv40 hdh douleyei me 100% apodwtikothta, ennow an h taxythta tou ps3 parameinei analogika idia me thn taxythta tou ps2 kathws einai logiko oti efoson prokeitai gia kainouria arxitektonikh oti tha anevoun kai oi 2), an grafeis kwdika gia na grafeis kwdika tote eisai mia xara. An grafeis kwdika gia na trexei, ektws elaxistwn exairesewn pou an kai den exoume dei akoma, pisteyw oti tha doume, tote mallon einai apotyxia to sygekrimeno implementation.

 

Pes mou ti den katalavaineis apo oti egrapsa kai euxaristws na sto exhghsw