matrix revolutions - full spoilers topic

[KaizerSoze]

KaizerSoze..θες να πεις πως ο κινηματογράφος πέθανε' date=' επειδή δεν ανταποκρίνεται στις αιωρούμενες πια, φιλοδοξίες του Κιούμπρικ? Οκ ξέρω πολύ καλά οτι δεν θες να πεις αυτό, μια έμφαση και μόνο δίνεις και το ξέρουμε όλοι.

 

[/quote'] :?: :?: :?: :?:

[LupinIII]

O Deix grafei :

 

Matrix revolutions : KRIMA,KRIMA,KRIMA. Fanhke oti viazontousan na to teleiwsoun. Oi dialogoi einai sk@t@ entelws, eidika oi symbouloi olo kotsanes rwtousan.

 

8a sumfwnisw apoluta...

ki emena auth thn entupwsh mou edwse..Fusika h tainia skhno8etika einai polu kalh..

Kai texnologika einai apsogh..(H maxh me tos exoskeletors htan fantastikh!!)

Dustuxws omws den doulepse kala kai xeka8ara to olo sthsimo.. :?

Oi dialogoi polu mpanal-oi symvouloi pragmatika ka8e allo para sumbouloi-

Akomh kai oi katastaseis exasan thn prwotupia..8usiasame kai thn Trinity (gia na ginei ligo melo? h epidh an pe8ane telika o Neo ki auth 8a eprepe na paei mazi tou opws oi uphretes akolou8ousan tous vasiliades ths arxaiothtas stous tafous tous?)

 

Telika pisteuw oti me apogohteuse ,oxi san ergo-giati an esteke mono tou 8a elega :KALO... ,alla san oloklhrosh tou MATRIX..

Kai kuriws giati kapou mou edwse thn entupwsh pou polu kala perigrafei pio panw o georgeadams :

 

Αυτό που θέλω να πω είναι πως για μένα δεν αξίζει να ψάχνουμε να βρούμε εξηγήσεις και κρυμμένα νοήματα, όταν ούτε οι ίδιοι οι δημιουργοί του δεν το έκαναν...

 

To kalutero sth fash einai oti exoume vgalei oloi edw ton filosofo pou kruvoume mesa mas kai analuoume to ergo!! Ki auto metraei telika,oti to ergo(kai anaferomai sthn trilogia) katafere na mas kanei na asxolh8oume eis va8os mazi tou 8)

 

 

P.S. .. Gia kati perisotero deite to ANIMATRIX.. Einai to kalutero ap'ola :wink:

[Fidelio]

KaizerSoze ...ως προς τα ερωτιματικά σου για την παράθεσή μου, οκ έχεις δίκιο...βλέπεις η απρόσωπη επικοινωνία του forum δεν μπορεί να αποδώσει το ύφος. ....απλώς η φράση σου : "Dystyxws o Theos ton pire nwris(enas apo tous logous pou den pisteyw pia ston Theo) kai etsi pote den tha doume-oxi oti alliws tha vlepame alla leme twra- TIN TELEIA TAINIA" ...ήταν κατα την γνώμη μου υπερβολική, μιας και εξηγω στο αμέσως προηγούμενο ποστ μου, οτί μάλλον είναι μια υποκειμενική άποψη.

 

Εύσημα για τις κινηματογραφικές σου γνώσεις δίνω λέγοντας ..."το ξέρουμε όλοι" ...

 

γουατ εβερ...

[Toufas]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0242653/board/nest/4166830

[nikolaos_]

Symfwna me tin logiki sou to Warcraft kai to Matrix apoteloun antigrafi twn paliwn western ,kyriws twn spaghetti, tainiwn. Re sy Niko,ayta pou perigrafeis symvainoun meses akres stis perisoteres tainies action

 

(KaizerSoze)

 

ta spaghetti western kai oi tainies action den einai yliko epi tou opoiou ekpaideftikan oi W. brothers? Mia omws apo tis megales apogoitefseis mou stin tainia itan oti akribws katalaba oti to Matrix mpike se ena tetoio sxima.

 

Oso gia tis filosofikes proektaseis. To 3 den itan meletimeno KATHOLOY, enw to 1 graftike me basi polles kai para poly kales idees, oi opoies eksantlithikan sto 2. H megali epityxia tou 1 einai oti itan toso kala ftiagmenes pou otan teleiwne to ergo ypopsiazosoun an isoun kai esy mesa se ena Matrix.

Polloi anthrwpoi ston kosmo pistevoun oti periballontai apo psemata, p.x. antilambanontai oti o kosmos einai alliws apo ayto pou tous exoun pei. Skefteite ti epidrasi exei mia tetoia tainia opws to Matrix 1 se aftous tous anthrwpous.

 

Den exw dei pote Kubrik, kai den kserw an to Ekkremes tou Foucault tha itan i teleia tainia. Edw pou ta leme, de thymamai kan an diabasa to biblio. (Nomizw 4 xronia prin, tote pou eixa psonistei me ton Eco. Anazitw atoma pou na exoun opws kai egw diabasei to Onoma toy Rodou se 7,5 wres !!)

[nikolaos_]

Twra an oi kosmoi einai 2 'H 3. Katarxin, xrisimopoiisa lathos oro: Kalytera na elega "politismoi", cultures, 'H kalytera cults. Kapou exw anaferei oti

 

* Yliki Ypostasi : Machines YES, Humans YES, Programs NO

 

* Direct Matrix access (DMA!) : Machines NO, Humans & Programs YES

 

* Personality / individuality : Machines NO, Humans & Programs YES

 

* Heros: Machines none (almost), Humans - Neo, Trinity, Morpheus e.a., Programs - Oracle, Smith, Architect, Keymaster etc.

 

* Reality access: Machines & Humans FULL, Programs none (almost)

 

* Technologies/Abilities: Machines almost invulnerable, Programs gain control, Humans have mental abilities overcoming the others.

[KaizerSoze]

 

ta spaghetti western kai oi tainies action den einai yliko epi tou opoiou ekpaideftikan oi W. brothers? Mia omws apo tis megales apogoitefseis mou stin tainia itan oti akribws katalaba oti to Matrix mpike se ena tetoio sxima.

 

Den exw dei pote Kubrik' date=' kai den kserw an to Ekkremes tou Foucault tha itan i teleia tainia. Edw pou ta leme, de thymamai kan an diabasa to biblio. (Nomizw 4 xronia prin, tote pou eixa psonistei me ton Eco. Anazitw atoma pou na exoun opws kai egw diabasei to Onoma toy Rodou se 7,5 wres !!)[/quote']

Den exeis dei pote Kubrick???

Elpizw na asteieyese....

 

Oso gia to Onoma tou Rodou: An kai anagnwrizw oti den einai toso polyepipedo opws to Ekrremes kai asfalws pio analafro pou eunoei grigori anagnwsi den nomizw oti einai sta proterimata kapoiou na diavase to Onoma se 7,5 wres,simainei apla oti exase kapoia pragmata

[nikolaos_]

An empaina stin diadikasia na psakw kai to 1/10 twn pigwn poy xrisimopoiei o Eco sto onoma tou rodou tha xreiastw poly xrono. Akoma ki an ekana 1 mina na to diabasw, exasa outws 'H allws polla pragmata. Synithws de sygratw tin ploki enos bibliou apo tin arxi ws to telos ektos ama to diabasw se mikro diastima. Thewrw proterima pantws egw to na kataferw ('h pio swsta, na me kataferei) na diabasw ena biblio se 7,5 wres xanontas ton ypno mou. Alla biblia pou exw diabasei ta exw afisei sti mesi gia na koimithw...

 

Kubrik eida se Fast Forward to kourdisto portokali. diladi den exw dei Kubrik. De kserw pws plasarei tis idees tou, ti leei, pws skeftetai mesa apo tis tainies tou.

 

Alla edw milagame gia to matrix nomizw?

[DXR]

Κατ' αρχήν, υπάρχουνε πολλές απαντήσεις στο θέμα και ομολογώ ότι δεν ήταν δυνατό να τις διαβάσω όλες. Δευτερόν, πιστεύω ότι η ταινία ήταν αρκετά καλή, καλύτερη από το Reloaded, αλλα σίγουρα το πρώτο παραμένει το καλύτερο της Τριλογίας. Απογοητεύτηκα βέβαια που δεν απαντήθηκαν πολλά ερωτήματα αλλά αυτό είναι κι η μαγεία ταυτόχρονα, αφήνουν την φαντασία μας να δουλέψει.

 

 

8usiasame kai thn Trinity (gia na ginei ligo melo? h epidh an pe8ane telika o Neo ki auth 8a eprepe na paei mazi tou opws oi uphretes akolou8ousan tous vasiliades ths arxaiothtas stous tafous tous?)

 

H Trinity έπρεπε να πεθάνει γιατι αλλιώς ο Neo δεν θα μπορούσε να πραγματοποιήσει το πεπρομένο του. Στο Reloaded είχε δυο επιλογές. 1) να γυρίσει στην πηγή και να ξαναχτιστεί η Zion με άτομα της επιλογής του. 2) Να σώσει την Trinity και να αφανιστεί το ανθρώπινο γένος. Οι προηγούμενοι "Neo" πήρανε την πρώτη επιλογή μιας και δεν ειχανε αγαπήσει, δεν υπήρχε μια Trinity. The problem is choice.

 

Aπό την αρχή ο Νεο δεν ήθελε να πιστέψει ότι δεν ήταν κυρίαρχος της μοίρας του (βλέπε Matrix). Όμως όπως διαπίστωσε και στο Revolutions "it was inevitable". Χωρίς να θυσιαστεί ο ίδιος δεν θα μπορούσανε να είχανε σωθεί τόσο οι μηχανές όσο και το ανθρώπινο γένος. Και όσο ζούσε η Trinity δε θα μπορούσε να την αφήσει. Αυτό βέβαια ισχύει μόνο για την περίπτωση που ο Neo επέστρεψε στην πηγή...IMHO πάντα 8)

[Toufas]

mallon kaneis den eide to post mou :/

[akpe]

Το βρήκα στο forum του Neowin κ είπα να το παραθέσω. Επειδή δέν παρακολουθώ το συγκεκριμένο topic ζητώ συγνώμμη αν περιέχει θεωρίες που έχουν ήδη ειπωθεί:

 

Wow ... where to start, where to end. Choice. Isn't that the problem? After all, every beginning does have an end, and this is it.

 

I saw the Matrix Revolutions today, when it came out, and must say I was in awe at the end ... everything clicked in my mind. Perhaps saying I will explain everything in this post is a bit ludicrous of a claim, but I will explain everything that makes sense.

 

Let's start with the beginning, appropriately so. The first movie is about birth, the second about love, the third about death and sacrifice. Let me explain and expand on those three points. The first movie was a stepping stone for the other two, in that it introduced a new world, and explained everything to us, the unsuspecting viewer. Frankly, at the END, the only important bits of the first Matrix movie are the following:

1) Neo is the one

2) When he is killed by Smith, he comes back.

 

These two things are what explains and launches the other two movie. Neo is the one, because he chose to be. He did that by taking the red pill, which in turn made him understand why he took it. Choices are what govern us all, including Neo. When Smith shoots Neo in the first movie, Neo is “born” in this new state of enlightenment, being “the One.” Keep this in mind while I explain the only important bit to the second movie in terms of this philosophical stream of thought. The second movie was a transition between Neo finding out his powers, and Neo experiencing love.

 

The really only important bits of the second movie are the following:

1) Neo is in love with Trinity

2) When Trinity dies, due to this Love, Neo is able to bring her back (reference – rebirth in the first movie)

 

Now, this may look like I am skipping a LOT, and yes, I am but bear with me. This will all make sense momentarily (I hope.) In the second movie, SINCE Neo loves Trinity, he chooses not to let her die. The second movie is all about love.

 

Now, the third movie. In that movie, which I just saw and so is fresh in my memory, the important bits to this stream of thought are that:

1) Trinity dies to save Neo (because of Love)

2) Neo dies to save Zion (because he is the One)

 

Now, the difference with the third movie is that they both die, and neither of them come back. Is it coincidence that Neo dies once, survives the first and dies the second, that Trinity dies twice, survives the first and dies the second? I’m sorry guys, but no it isn’t. The entire trilogy is supposed to balance itself, just like the Ying and Yang. For every death, there is a birth, for every person who comes back, there is a death. The fact that Trinity and Neo have similar paths is simply to emphasize the love that they share, the love they CHOSE to have between them two which essentially led to all the rest. Now that I made my broad point, I will go back in time and I will nitpick and explain how everything in the trilogy effectively cancel out to bring a mathematical perfection, a balanced equation.

 

Let’s be original, and take the second movie. When Neo and Trinity come out of the elevator the first time they come to Zion, Neo is welcomed with gifts by everyone. Trinity leaves, and Neo says “I need you,” to which Trinity replies “They need you.” Then, in the third movie, Trinity dies for Neo, and Neo dies for Zion. Coincidence? No siree! It’s all about the Ying and Yang, for every matter there is anti-matter. Neo and Smith are the same, and opposite. The Architect and the Oracle, are the same, but opposite. That just reminded me, I have a bit to say about the Architect which was left unclear in Reloaded and now is blinding obvious in Revolutions.

 

Who is the Architect? Fine, he created the Matrix. Perhaps the relevant question is what is his PURPOSE. Ah, now we’re talking. The Architect’s purpose, evidently, is to force Neo to make a choice. In Reloaded, he must choose between the door to the right and the one to the left. This choice is what then triggered everything else, and what the Architect said was “impossible” in fact happened. The only purpose to the Architect is to emphasize that everything begins, and ends, with choice. Now, in the third movie, the little girl. What is her purpose? To show the similarities between humans and machines, and to make neo more and more appealing, and smith less and less appealing, in equal but opposite ways. When neo first meets the little girl and her parents, he learns that machines CAN have feelings like love. When neo fights Smith, Smith says that love is an illusion. Neo beats Smith when Smith KNEW he beat Neo. Why? Because Smith made the CHOICE to see what he wanted to see, not what was going to happen. To quote, “we can never see past the choices we do not understand”.

 

The ending of Revolutions symbolises everything, because it creates a symbiotic relationship between humans and machines. It has a moral, not that war is useless, but that it’s a perpetual cycle between humans and machines. One day one side wins, the other day the other side. Then, one side wipes the other, the “anomaly” – or the one – comes, repopulates Zion and it starts over. Neo is the one who broke the cycle, because he CHOSE to. By doing this, he essentially made it that peace is the best option, and he BELIEVED in that so much that he was ready to sacrifice his life. The ending stroke me as quite ingenious, with the black cat walking by the little girl on the pavement, because in the first matrix, the black cat was a reference to “déjà vu – when they change something in the matrix”, and at the end we have a deja-vu with the cat. This brings back that in all his ignorance at the beginning, the state Neo was in was similar to the one at the end, stable. The only difference is at the end, he achieved peace, and that is how Neo broke the cycle, that’s how his choice affected the outcome.

 

A few other questions that bothered me. How can Neo still see when blind? How can Neo still be in the matrix when not plugged in? He can still see when blind because Neo was created by the machine world, and in the end helped the machines AND the humans EQUALLY. Since he was created by the machines as the “anomaly”, he is connected to the source at all times, and so he doesn’t need to see, the source can feedback to him. This is also why he can be and feel the matrix when he is not plugged in, because essentially Neo is part of the source. I particularly liked the bit where Neo meets the girl at the train station for the first time, because the father mentions Karmas which I think summarize the movie very well. Neo is at the right Karma to be the one after his “first” death, Trinity is prepared to risk her life and have the right Karma for that after her “first” death, and they end up living and dying together, a love so strong that no man or machine could do anything about.

 

And so, through birth, through love, and through death – the life cycle of your average human being, we see the connection between Neo, Trinity and Zion. I particularly liked the bit when he last shook his hand with Morpheus, really touched me seeing where the two came from and the mutual respect they have for them now, and that is why Neo won, because of that human touch combined with the machine Cartesian mind and resources. The outcome, in my mind, though predictable was perfect, and I loved the movie. The last bit where the Architect says “Of course I promise, I’m not human” or something close to that, I think is great because it means that those who CHOOSE to be freed, i.e. have the right Karma to be freed will be freed, and so it’s a compromise between humans and machines understanding and respecting each other, leading to this prominent peace.

[Edgar]

kala ta leei o tipos... mono sto telos to xalaei ligo...

re gamoto... mia normal apantisi sto giati exei o neo tis dinameis pou exei sto real word, den tha mas tin dosei kanenas?

[Toufas]

edgar diavase to diko mou reeeeee mmkay?

[Edgar]

to diko sou toufa, kati pige na pei, alla kai pali den me polienthousiase....

den gouastaro tin theoria MwM re gamoto.... mmkay? :roll:

 

ps. pao na to ksanadiabaso mpas kai mou ksefige tipota ton proti fora :roll:

[Toufas]

cartman inside cartman omos?

lol uncle jesssy!!!