HD-DVD vs. Bluray: πρωτες εντυπωσεις..

[p3tran]

Gametab: Blu-Ray First Impressions Not Promising

και

The Digital Bits: I'm less than impressed

 

 

 

 

Well... I've had my first experience with Blu-ray Disc, and Samsung's BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc player. For the record, I have four titles on hand... The Fifth Element and The Terminator (from Sony and MGM) and Lord of War and Crash (from Lionsgate).

 

You know how I keep saying that these formats are being rushed to market about a year before they're ready? And you recall how hard I was on the HD-DVD camp for their klutzy launch and buggy hardware? And you know how I said that Blu-ray Disc looked like the superior format, at least on paper? Well... unfortunately, the Blu-ray camp has dropped a dud with their big launch too. Every bit as klutzy as HD-DVD. Think Clark Kent klutzy, or Gerald Ford klutzy, or Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford klutzy.

 

Let's start with the Samsung player. Nice box, nice packaging. You pull the BD-P1000 out of said packaging and it looks pretty badass. Love the lines. It's a much nicer looking player than Toshiba's HD-A1, though it's lighter and feels a little less solid. The BD-P1000's remote is nicer too... not backlit unfortunately, but it feels better in your hand and the buttons are laid out more conveniently.

 

Connection via HDMI is pretty easy. You fire the BD-P1000 up and the first thing you notice is a sexy blue glow from the various openings on the player. Nice... except I have yet to find a dimmer. And it's just a little too bright, you know? Anyway... the player fires up very quickly. You get a welcome screen within about 5 seconds of power-on. BIG improvement over the Tosh HD-DVD player. You can load a disc after less then 30 seconds, also an improvement over the Tosh. I also like that when it's loading or thinking, you get a little onscreen icon to let you know, rather than just nothing. At least you feel like the thing is doing something. For whatever reason, the player defaults to 720p output via HDMI... you have to go into the setup menu to select 1080i. Okay, so that's what I did.

 

Now it's time to look at my first Blu-ray Disc. Naturally, my hand swerved towards The Fifth Element. The title was an amazing bit of reference work on standard DVD, and that Superbit version was awesome. Obvious choice, right? Should look amazing in HD. Yeah... it should. But it doesn't. In fact... I'm not going to come out and say it looks like crap, but it is easily the worst looking high-definition title I've seen yet, and I've seen 30+ titles now. The image is muddy looking, lacking in crisp, clean detail. The colors don't quite pop off the screen like they should. Just a mess. Okay... I will say it. It looks like crap. Sony should never have released this title like this. In fact, they should be embarrassed about this disc. Seriously, if you compare the upscaled Superbit standard-definition DVD to this, the Blu-ray Disc looks only marginally better. This should have been a reference title in high-def and it's not even in the ball park. My brow furrowed in troubled surprise at this point. Wow... and not the good kind.

 

Next, I tried The Terminator. A big improvement. This is easily the best quality I've ever seen The Terminator looking before. Still... it's a little bit soft and gritty looking, but then it's an older film and that's the nature of the film stock used. The disc is very good looking, but not blow-you-away good. In any case, this is probably not the best title to test the video quality of Blu-ray Disc, so let's move on.

 

Now these two Lionsgate titles... they're much better looking. Crash and Lord of War have significantly improved clarity, crisp yet clean detail, vibrant color... they're much more like what I expected Blu-ray Disc would look like. Both have a more film-like image. And yet...

 

There are some problems I'm seeing right away with all of the Blu-ray Disc titles on the BD-P1000. First, when I switch to 1080i, I'm noticing some very obvious scaling issues that I don't see when the player is set to 720p. I also don't see anything like this on the Toshiba HD-A1 at any resolution, so this is specific to THIS player, which may be why Samsung ships it with 720p set by default. Second, I'm noticing a very slight "studdering" problem. About once a second, or maybe once every few seconds, the video seems to hesitate for just a instant - a tiny fraction of a second. You notice it most when the images on screen are moving quickly, or when the camera is panning. It may be that this issue is related to the first. Still trying to figure out what I'm seeing here. Lionsgate's Lord of War was the title where I noticed it first, and I'll have to check them all before knowing whether it's just this title or all of the discs. Again, it's not something I've seen on any HD-DVD titles thus far.

 

By the way, I haven't tested the Samsung's standard DVD upconversion capability to any real degree yet. Just FYI.

 

If I had to compare my initial impressions of Blu-ray Disc to those of HD-DVD... well, I certainly need to see more Blu-ray titles and spend more time with the player. I'm really just giving you my initial, off-the-cuff comments, based on less than 10 hours of viewing time with the Samsung. It's worth noting that we've only seen one player for each format, so it's hard to say what issues are specifically related to the players, and what are format related. But right now... I think I may end up giving Round One of this format war to HD-DVD, and that surprises the hell out of me. Sure, that Tosh HD-DVD player was a lemon until the firmware upgrade, but it's worked like a charm since. And the first 25 or so HD-DVD discs I've viewed just look better overall than the first 4 Blu-ray Discs I've seen. The HD-DVDs also have a LOT more extra features than the Blu-ray Discs (even if you consider that most of the extras are recycled from standard DVD). For the record, Terminator on Blu-ray has 7 deleted scenes and 2 featurettes, recycled from standard DVD. Fifth Element has a pop-up trivia track, again from the standard DVD. The Lionsgate titles have nothing. I keep hearing these comments (both official and unofficial) from Blu-ray execs saying that they're leaving off the extras so they can give all the extra disc space over to the best video quality possible. Which tells me that Blu-ray is having major disc space problems. I've heard from more than a few industry sources that Blu-ray is having trouble getting the dual-layered BD media to work, which means that discs with lots of extras and good video quality aren't an option now. It also means that longer movies aren't an option now either. Both are problems for this format that don't seem to be troubling HD-DVD at the moment - at least not at first glance, based on the initial title offering.

 

What all of this goes to prove, of course, is just what I've been saying all along: These formats are being rushed to market before they're ready. And it also proves that the best option for the vast majority of you out there is just to save your money. Don't even bother with Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD for at least a year, because there are significant bugs to be worked out yet. Wait until better hardware and software is available at a better price, and the early adopter types have dealt with the problems and getting the manufacturers and studios to fix them. Anyway, I'll have more to say about Blu-ray Disc and the Samsung player in the next few days, as I spend a little more time with it. But so far, I'm less than impressed.

 

Bill Hunt, Editor

The Digital Bits

[email protected]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

τι λεει με δυο λογια ο συντακτης του digital bits?

λεει οτι καλυτερα παιζει το HD-DVD, παρα το BluRay (720p??? scalling στο 1080i?? )

επισημαινει το προβλημα με το dual layer στο bluray (τα ειχα πει παλιοτερα για το κονικο λεηζερ κλπ), και λεει οτι ως εκ τουτου, πιο πολυ πραμα χωραει το hd-dvd παρα το br,

επισης λεει οτι απο την επαφη αυτη που ειχε με τα 2 μεσα, ο πρωτος γυρος παει στο hd-dvd.

ακομα, λεει και το πιο σημαντικο, οτι τα φορμα αυτα πανε να βγουνε πριν την ωρα τους και οποιος τα παρει απο τωρα εχει να φαει πακετακι, καθως και οι δυο ..ψηφιακοι αντιπαλοι, θα διορθωνουν bugs και ατελειες στην ...πλατη οσων μου θελουνε να μου γινουνε ..early pelates...εεεε adopters ηθελα να πω..

[kallair]

ma gia auto kai to hd-dvd opws k to BR forum ekanan tin mia delay meta tin alli! sigoura oti provlima k an exoun tora auta ta players, se kana mina ante 2 me ena aplo firmware upgrade tha exoun lithei. gia tin poiotita twn blueray diskwn eipe k o idios oti einai noris mias k exoun bgei mono 4 titloi se auto to format. na rotiso k to allo. evlepe to content se 1080i? oxi se 1080p?

tora gia to oti to hd-dvd xoraei perissotero pragma apo to BR auto einai apolita sxetiko. eksartatai ti codec eixan xrisimopoiisei sto kathe format. an sto hd-dvd eixan xrisimopoiisei avc k sto br-rom eixan xrisimopoiisei mpeg-2, tote logiko einai na xoraei perissotero content. apo default to blueray exei perissotero xoro apo to hd-dvd. to proto exei 25gb se 1 layer enw to hd-dvd exei 15 gb. ara it's all about codec....

 

p.s. to topic auto kalitera na metakinithei stin divx k dvd authoring enotita. i sxesi tou me konsoles einai apo midamini eos anirpakti.

[Daredevil]

po default to blueray exei perissotero xoro apo to hd-dvd. to proto exei 25gb se 1 layer enw to hd-dvd exei 15 gb. ara it's all about codec....

ektos apo to codec an diabasa kala pros to parwn einai 8ema oti ta bd dual layrer pros to parwn exoun problhma, en anti8esh me ta hd. Opote mia tainia apo twra mporei aneta na bgei se hd-dl pou shmainei 30gb en anti8esh me to bd-SL pou shmainei 25

[p3tran]

το θεμα εχει και παραεχει σχεση με τις κονσολες!!!

μην τρελλαθουμε κιολας!!

 

 

οσο για αυτα που λες, οι τιτλοι που βγηκαν και δοκιμαστηκαν ειναι της sony.

το codec ειναι οντως mpeg2, γιατι προφανως αυτο συμφερει τη sony (more royalties),

ενω η εναλλακτικη (και καλυτερη) λυση VC-1, εμπεριεχει και καποιες υποχρεωσεις προς τον μισητο αντιπαλο

 

ελπιζω να μην γινει και εδω οτι με το ps3 (overhype και underdeliver )

 

 

edit:

στο avs forum, εχουν αρχισει τα ..γιουρουσια

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=687865&page=1&pp=30

[EKTELESTES]

p3tran - Megalytero gyrologo tou net pou psaxnei na vrei otidhpote gia na koroidepsei k na epitethei sthn Sony, den exw ksana-mata-idei. Kathe fora pou vriskeis arthro pou thavei thn Sony prepei na katouriesai apo thn xara sou!

 

Anti na katseis na syzhthseis to thema, geloiopoieis k koroideueis ta panta edw mesa.

 

Euge agori mou!K eis anwtera!

[p3tran]

με γεια το bluray ektelestes.

 

βλεπω πως βοηθας εσυ τη συζητηση και εμπνεομαι.

[kallair]

k to ksanaleo. to thema den exei sxesi me konsoles peran tou oti to ps3 tha exei dinatotita na paiksei br diskakia. tora pws i sigkrisi twn 2 prwtwn high definnition player k i maxi twn 2 format exei na kanei me to ps3... den mporo na to katalavw...

 

kala min trelathoume kiolas legontas oti i sony tha xrisimopoiei mono mpeg-2 logw loyalties. auto einai poli lame na to ipostirizei kapoios. pou einai to overhype sto gegonos oti einai akoma poli noris gia na krinoume ta 2 format? to hd-dvd einai ousiastika pio orimo san protipo se sxesi me to blueray.

o monos pou paei na kanei hype girw sto olo thema eisai esi.

[p3tran]

...ακομα' date=' λεει και το πιο σημαντικο, οτι τα φορμα αυτα πανε να βγουνε πριν την ωρα τους

και οποιος τα παρει απο τωρα εχει να φαει πακετακι, καθως και οι δυο ..ψηφιακοι αντιπαλοι,

θα διορθωνουν bugs και ατελειες στην ...πλατη οσων μου θελουνε να μου γινουνε ..early pelates...εεεε adopters ηθελα να πω.. [/quote']

 

αμα δεν ξερετε να διαβαζετε, δεν ειναι δικο μου προβλημα....

εγω μια σουμα και 3 λινκς εχω βαλει...

 

p.s. οσο για overhype-undedeliver, απο παλιοτερα ειχανε υπαρξει αποριες απο ειδικους (εγω καμια σχεση) σχετικα με την κονικη ακτινα λεηζερ του bluray, την δυσκολια να χωρισει tracks σε πυκνογραμμενα δισκακια, καθως και το ποσο ευαισθητα σε βρωμιτσες και σημαδια θα ειναι αναγκαστικα τα bluray disks, αν δεν βρεθει τροπος να ξεπεραστει αυτο το προβλημα.

το γεγονος οτι η sony εβγαλε μονα δισκακια, με λιγοτερο περιεχομενο απο οτι τα hd-dvd ενω κραζει οτι ειναι μακραν το καλυτερο και μεγαλυτερο φορμα, ισως να λεει κατι σε καποιους. ισως βεβαια και να μην λεει τιποτα.

[kallair]

se auto to simeio diafonoume. ego pisteuo oti mexri septembri to poli oi opoies ateleies k leptomeries tha exoun lithei. esi profanws pisteueis oti k to ps3 tha einai ena beta-tester tou blueray? am i correct?

 

hardware provlimata to blueray den prokeitai na exei. oi ateleies tha einai eite sta diskakia k to content tous eite se firmware k toixon bugs. pragmata pou diorthonontai...

[p3tran]

beta tester? μπα. νευρα-tester, ισως.

ο kutaragi ειπε οτι στο μελλον θα βγουν και αλλα configuration της κονσολας....

εσυ μηπως ξερεις να μου πεις τι ταχυτητα θα εχει το bluray του ps3?

μηπως θυμασαι ποσο καλος dvd player ητανε το πρωτο ps2?

 

συμφωνω ομως μαζι σου, και ευχομαι κι εγω ολα τα αλυτα θεματα με την κυκλοφορια του bluray, να εχουνε λυθει μεχρι την κυκλοφορια του playstation

[p3tran]

And....

 

These calculations are presuming 25GB capacity of these BD discs. Last I heard' date=' they were only very recently getting just over 20 GB capacity on a BD25 due to yield problems. If one recalculates subtracting at least 4-5 GB for audio (5.1 PCM, full bit rate DTS, and Dolby Digital) from 22-23 GB total, well, that could acout for the very lukewarm reviews of some of these first discs.[/quote']

 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7860502&post7860502

 

δηλ. συμφωνα με καποιον σχετικα ειδικο, οχι απλα δεν εχουνε καταφερει ακομα να σιαξουνε double layer δισκους (BD50),

αλλα δεν εχουν καταφερει ακομα να χρησιμοποιησουν με επιτυχια τα 25 που εχει το single layer (BD25)

[kallair]

telika i odisseia tou ps3 peran tou elleipous developing pou ipirxe, ipirxe ontws provlima me to blueray k den itan excuses gia na kalipsoun tin elleipsi apo games. genika k ta 2 format exoun akoma paidikes astheneies. tora to kata poso tha einai mapa to blueray tou ps3, den mporo na ksero. alla an ipologiso ta complaints pou eixe i sony gia to dvd-rom tou ps2 tote eimai sigouros oti den tha kanei to idio lathos twice.

otan paei na xtipisei mia agora legontas mas oti to ps3 tha einai ena entertaining center, den mporei na valei gia ton poutso driver mesa. tha xasei to koino pou tha to agoraze gia auto ton logo. nomizeis oti i sony den exei mathei apo ta lathi tis?

 

p.s. telika poia einai i megisti analisi tou hd-dvd? ego thimamai 1080i k kapoios edo mou eixe pei oti einai 1080p. sto arthro omws PALI leei oti i megisti analisi tou hd-dvd einai 1080i. pou mporoume na vroume ta official specs pou na lene ksekathara poia einai i megisti analisi (k oxi me hz k malakies. na leei ksekathara 1080i i 1080p).

[EKTELESTES]

με γεια το bluray ektelestes.

 

βλεπω πως βοηθας εσυ τη συζητηση και εμπνεομαι.

 

Αμφιβάλλω, η έμπνευση για τέτοια θέματα πρέπει να 'ναι εκ γενετής για σένα, άμα σκάψουμε λίγο το φόρουμ θα βρούμε χιλιάδες "φυσικές" εμπνεύσεις σου.

 

ΥΓ. Όταν δημιουργήσεις έστω κ 1 θέμα για συζήτηση κ όχι για να βγάζεις τους αντι-σονυ κομπλεξισμούς σου παραέξω, πες το κ σε μένα. Ως τότε, καλή κοροϊδία.

 

http://www.insomnia.gr/vb3/search.php?searchid=602823

 

Ορίστε κ τα θέματα του αγαπητοί Insomniacs, που να βρούμε κ τα χιλιάδες φανατικά μηνύματα που έχουν καταντήσει την ενότητα κονσόλες ξεφτίλα εδω κ καιρό...

[Daredevil]

p.s. telika poia einai i megisti analisi tou hd-dvd? ego thimamai 1080i k kapoios edo mou eixe pei oti einai 1080p. sto arthro omws PALI leei oti i megisti analisi tou hd-dvd einai 1080i. pou mporoume na vroume ta official specs pou na lene ksekathara poia einai i megisti analisi (k oxi me hz k malakies. na leei ksekathara 1080i i 1080p).

1080p einai aplws ta prwta montela hd yposthrizoun mexri 1080i kai nai egw eimoun pou sou to eixa pei

[kallair]

tha einai players pou mporoun na kanoun upscale se 1080p i tha einai native 1080p? dose se parakalo link pou na leei ksekathara to resolution tou hd-dvd giati se kathe search result vlepo k alla pragmata!