The Official XBOX360 topic

[Slay]

gnomi mou einai oti edo mesa prepei na postarontai eidiseis' date='analisis,fimes kai oti allo mono gia to xbox360.

Afto pou ginetai einai pos otan postaretai kati iparxoun 2-3 sigekrimena atoma ta opoia monima tha ipostiriksoun pos oti grafetai einai lathos,einai fimes,einai diafimisi kai oti to PS3 einai kalitero.[/quote']

Ta forum an den to exeis katalabei akoma, einai topoi syzhthseos, oxi pinakes anakoinoseon, opote tha synexisoyme na postaroyme tis kakes eidhseis poy sas enoxloyn , kai tha synexisoyme na leme ta pragmata opos ta blepoyme emeis kai oxi opos thelete na ta blepoyme, kai perepiptontos o privateer exei postarei ouk oliges "kakes" eidhseis sto ps3 thread, den bghke kanenas na toy pei giati postarei, alla opoios exei thn myga mygiazetai.

[Slay]

Η Microsoft ζητάει να μην απαιτείτε η αγορά σκληρού για κανένα game, και για αυτό ακριβώς είναι στεναχωρημένοι οι Xbox Fan , που ΔΕΝ ήθελαν την ύπαρξη μοντέλου χωρίς σκληρό.

mallon logariazei xoris ton xenodoxo,

 

Reports suggest Xbox 360 FFXI will require hard drive

 

 

Has the exclusion of the hard drive from the Core System created a two tier Xbox 360?

 

A number of online reports have emerged suggesting that the Xbox 360 version of Square Enix' massively multiplayer title Final Fantasy XI will only play on versions of the console which are equipped with the hard drive.

 

While no confirmation or denial has been forthcoming from Square Enix itself, the reports are logical enough - in its PC and PS2 incarnations, FFXI uses the hard drive incredibly heavily to store character information and content updates.

 

Installation sizes on those systems are multiple gigabytes, and over the months and years of the game's operation, hundreds of megabytes of additional content, patches and expansions have been added to the game.

 

Therefore, it's logical that FFXI should require a hard drive to play - but it's potentially embarrassing for Microsoft, which faces the prospect of the first title it has ever secured for its platform from Square Enix not working on many Xbox 360 consoles.

 

The decision to make the hard drive optional has a number of consequences for the Xbox 360; many developers who have spoken to GamesIndustry.biz expressed doubt that the drive would be used in many third party games, since it will be seen as an optional peripheral.

 

However, the possibility that a "two tier" Xbox 360 has been created, where only those with hard drives will be able to play certain - primarily online - games, is arguably a more major concern. It remains to be seen how Microsoft plans to communicate the differences between the two versions of the system to consumers, and avoid confusion and disappointment among those expecting to be able to play MMOG titles on the Core System bundle.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=11070

[Stormwatch]

Για ξαναδιαβασε τα post μου των τελευταιων ημερων...

Εξεφρασα την αποψη μου οτι ΣΙΓΟΥΡΑ στο μελλον θα κυκλοφορησουν παιχνιδια που θα απαιτουν σκληρο και αυτο γιατι θα υπαρχει μια πολυ μεγαλη βαση χρηστων του "ακριβου" πακετου.

Απλα η MS δεν θα εβγαινε να πει κατι τετοιο απο την αρχη γιατι κανενας δεν θα επαιρνε το "φθηνο".

Πραγματικα ,ελπιζω να συμβει αυτο γιατι ετσι θα εχουμε πληρη εκμεταλευση του σκληρου...

[BlizardBill]

To xbox 360 ktistike apo tin arxi os game console kai media center.

To PS3 oxi.Valan ena Cell.Eidan oti den politravaei xwris karta.Valan tin karta pou pire o ksaderfos mou ti proigoumeni evdomada

Λάθος... το PS3 είναι media center και έχει ότι χρειάζεται για το παρόν και το μέλλον.

BlueRay για να έχεις πρόσβαση σε όλα τα πιθανά format Multimedia .

Υψηλότερη ανάλυση HDTV για καλύτερη έξοδο ακόμα και στα πιο εξελιγμένα monitor-projectors.

Ανοιχτό σχετικά λειτουργικό, για να μπορεί ο καθένας να προσθέσεις εφαρμογές και να μην λείψει τίποτα.

Ταχύτερες και περισσότερες ethernet και γενικά θύρες για καλύτερη "συνδεσιμότητα" και επεκτασιμότητα.

Bluetooth ενσωματωμένο , και με το wireless έχει πλάκα πως θα μπορείς άμεσα να το ανοίγεις -κλείνεις από το psp, και να βλέπεις divx-dvd στην μικρή οθόνη.

Υποστήριξη για videoin και εγγραφή στο HD... και γενικά έχουν φροντίσει να μην του λείψει τίποτα.

 

ΥΓ

Να γιατί έχει νόημα να γράφουμε σε αυτό το thread παιδιά... αργότερα θα πάμε σίγουρα όλοι μαζί σε αυτό του Ps3

[BlizardBill]

Εξεφρασα την αποψη μου οτι ΣΙΓΟΥΡΑ στο μελλον θα κυκλοφορησουν παιχνιδια που θα απαιτουν σκληρο και αυτο γιατι θα υπαρχει μια πολυ μεγαλη βαση χρηστων του "ακριβου" πακετου.

Αυτό θα είναι το μόνο game, επειδή δεν γίνεται αλλιώς, αλλά δεν θα υπάρξουν άλλα.

Η Μicrosoft δεν απαγορεύει να υποστηρίξουν το σκληρό, αλλά τους αναγκάζει να έχουν έκδοση χωρίς HD, και μάλιστα με προσοχή για μικρό loading time.

 

Αν και με τη πανάκριβη και μη συμβατή memory card που θα απαιτεί το 360 για save (η sony θα έχει flash duo) δεν βλέπω ποιος θα δώσει 340 ευρώ για το απλό XboX.

Γιαυτό θα έπρεπε να υπήρχε ΜΙΑ έκδοση μόνο με HD, χωρίς τα υπόλοιπα, και να έκανε 350 ευρώ.

Το κέρδος θα ήταν πως όλοι οι προγραμματιστές θα δουλεύαν με τον δίσκο για καλύτερα παιχνίδια και μικρότερο loading time ,χωρίς τις σημερινές extra δυσκολίες και περιορισμούς.

ΜΕΓΑΛΗ πατάτα της Microsoft φαίνεται , όταν ξέρει ότι ο χρόνος στην αρχή είναι πολύτιμος, και έπρεπε να δείξει το καλύτερό της εαυτό.

Λογικά λοιπόν έχουν καταλάβει όλοι οι Xbox fan το δώρο προς την Sony, και δεν νομίζω να έχουν άδικο εδώ.

[privateer]

Hardware Specs

 

Triple-Core 3.2 Ghz custom CPU

- shared 1MB L2 Cache

- customized vector floating point unit per core

- 5.4 Gps FSB: 10.8 GB/s read and 10.8 GB/s write

** GPU can read from L2

500 Mghz custom GPU

- 48 parallel unified shaders

- 10 MB embedded DRAM for fram buffer: 156GB/sec

512 Meg unified memory (700MGHZ GDDR3: 22.4 GB/s)

12x Dual layer DVD

20 GB Hard drive

High Def video out.

 

System Block Diagram (I'm just going to list the stuff hanging off the IO chip)

DVD (SATA)

HDD (SATA)

Front Controllers (2 USB)

Wireless Controllers

MU ports (2 USB)

Rear Panel USB

Ethernet

IR

Audio Out

FLASH

System Control

Video Out (hanging off of a separate Analog chip)

 

CPU: PPC Core Specs

* 3 3.2 Ghz PowerPC cores

* Shared 1 MB L2 cache, 8-way associative

* Per-Core features

- 2 issue per cycle, in-order, decoupled vector/scalar issue queue

- 2 symmetric fine grain hardware threads

- L1 Caches: 32K 2-way I$ / 32K 4-way D$

- Execution Pipelines

-- Branch Unit, Integer Unit, Load/Store Unit

-- VMX 128 Units: Floating Point Unit, Permute Unit, Simple Unit

-- Scalar FPU

* VMX128 enchanced for game and graphics workload

-- all execution units 4-way SIMD

-- 128 128-bit vector registers per thread

-- custom dot-product instruction

-- native D3D compressed data formats

 

CPU Data Streaming Specs

* High bandwidth data streaming support with minimal cache thrashing

- 128B cache line size (all cache)

- Flexible set locking in L2

- Write streaming:

* L1s are write through, writes do not allocate in L1

* 4 uncacheable write gathering buffers per core

* 8 cacheable, non-sequential write gathering buffers per core

- Read Streaming:

* xDCBT data prefetch aroudn L2, directly into L1

* 8 outstanding load/prefetches per core

- Tight GPU data streaming integration (XPS)

* XPS -- "Xbox Procedural Synthesis"

* GPU 128B read from L2

* GPU low latency cacheable writebacks to CPU

* GPU shared D#D compressed data formats with CPU => at least 2x effective bus bandwidth for typical graphics data.

 

GPU Specs

* 500 MGhz graphics processor

- 48 parallel shader cores (ALUs)l dynamically schedulted 32bit IEEE FLP

- 24 billion shader instructions per second

* (super scalar design; scalar and texture ops per instruction)

- Pixel fillrate: 4 billion pixels/sec (8 per cycle); 2x for depth / stencil only

* AA: 16 billion samples/sec; 2x for depth / stencil only

- Geometry rate: 500 million triangles/sec

- Texture rate: 8 billion bilinear samples / sec

* 10 MB EDRAM -> 256 GB/s fill

* Direct3d 9.0 Compatible

- High level Shader Language (HLSL) 3.0+ support

* Custom features

- Memory export; Particle physics, subdivision surfaces

- Tiling acceleration: full resolution Hi-Z, Predicated Primitives

- XPS:

* CPU cores can be slaved to GPU processing

* GPU reads geometry data directly from L2

- Hardware scaling for display resolution matching

 

 

Architectural Choices

* FSAA, alpha and z place heavy load on memory BW

* Post-process effects require large depth complexity

* Enable flexible UMA solution

* Main Memory FB/ZB => unpredictable performance

* Solution: take FB/ZB fill-rate out of the equation

 

Software

* SMP/SMT

- Mainstream techniques

- Everything is simplified by being symmetric

* UMA

- No partitioning headaches

* OS

- All 3 cores available for game developers

* Standard APIs

- Win32, OpenMP

- Direct3d, HLSL

- Assembly (CPU & Shader) supported - direct hardware access

* Standard tools

- XNA; PIX, XACT

- Visual C++, works with multiple threads

 

 

 

Most of that stuff isn't new. What's more interesting that I don't think has been given enough attention is the GPU/CPU cooperation on the 360. The Xbox 360 CPU (Xenon) and Xbox 360 GPU (Xenos) both natively understand Direct3D Compressed data formats, just like they understand typical "double" and "floats", etc. There's zero performance hit in using these compressed formats due to the custom circuitry employed, and it effectively halves the bandwidth requirements for sending graphics data back/forth between the CPU and GPU. The official claim is the compressed D3D formats provide the equivalent of 20GB/s more bandwidth for "free".

 

1 or more of the 6 CPU threads can be "slaved" to the GPU, so the GPU would actually dictate all program flow through that chip. This would be especially useful in the procedural synthesis/dynamic geometry that MS is talking up a storm about.

 

conference attendee posted:Xbox 360 talk, explaining design decisions and System Architecture

 

by Jeff Andrews and Nick Baker

 

(I'll post slides in a week if they are not published on the net by then)

 

 

* All games are required to support 720p (I think I heard that right)

 

-----

CPU

-----

 

* Most of the time was spent enhancing the VMX-128 units fro graphics purposes.

 

* XPS -- small amount of read data to generate lots and lots of geometry. (used as a "decompression" algorithm)

 

* GPU write back to CPU is to indicate that the GPU is done reading data.

 

* D3D compressed data formats were customized into both the VMX units and into the GPU.

 

* prefetching reads can go into L1 and skip L2. Writes can skip L1 and go to L2 (this is to avoid thrashing)

 

* Claim: the compressed D3D effectively adds an extra 20GB/s bandwidth.

 

-----

GPU

-----

 

* The added EDRAM allows Main memory to be dedicated to texture and vertex (read only) This makes things easier for main memory.

 

-----

DEMO

-----

 

(XBOX 360 in form factor is here.)

 

* PGR3

- starts with multiscreens

- cars racing on track

- dynamic angle selection from multiple sources while playing (i.e. like multiple screens at once)

 

Xenon has 165 million transistors:

Xenos' mother core has 232M transistors, and the daughter core has 100M transistors (332M transistors total)

 

Xenos will use the new PCI-Express protocol to communicate with the southbridge

A more detailed CPU diagram

[privateer]

Tiger Woods screenshots

[Stormwatch]

"Αυτό θα είναι το μόνο game, επειδή δεν γίνεται αλλιώς, αλλά δεν θα υπάρξουν άλλα."

 

Που το ξερεις;

 

 

Οι προπαραγγελιες του Χ360 στην Βρετανια πανε υπερβολικα καλα??

 

What’s the best thing you can tell everyone about a new videogames machine? That’s right! That it's not for sale anymore and will be really rare and exciting. Knowing this all too well, GAME Retail in the UK has announced that it can no longer accept any orders for Xbox 360 due to phenomenal demand.

 

Now of course, we’re not saying that this is bogus, but given production lines haven't even begun to roll over in China, and yield rates have yet to be established, it would seem an odd time to calculate expected stocking levels of the new machine.

 

Unless of course GAME has taken such a huge amount of pre-orders that even the most industrious industrialised manufacturing plant could not meet expected demand.

 

GAME mentioned that although the core system would still be available, the premium (actually worth buying) version has sold out following “phenomenal demand”.

 

Of course, should this prove a PR ruse, and we’re not for a moment suggesting it is, you can at least take comfort in the fact that there will be a supply of new hardware. The “everything is fine with stocking” joke played by Sony at launch each time around is getting a bit old

 

http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=9078

[privateer]

We spent some time talking to Microsoft about Media Centre and X360. We've got good news, and even better news if you are planning to upgrade to VISTA. Currently, X360 will run a Media Centre enviroment and, while this will need you to install some special PC tools on your Media Centre, setup is simple.

 

The difference from it being a normal Media Centre is that the X360 uses some of its processing power to render the Media Centre Screens - so it feels as if you are actually using a Media Centre.

 

The biggest news which we have heard is that when Windows Vista ships it will be Media Centre enabled as standard. This will also be able to talk to X360 and the enviroment will change.

 

If you wish to play a DVD via the Media Centre you can not stream this - it is only avaliable over the LAN, you can only do this with a local disk.

 

One other downfall is that the Media Centre Extender can not play anything bar WMV9 encoded video, even if you do install the DIVX codecs on your main Media Centre system.

 

 

XBOX Gaming Menu

 

XBOX Menu

 

XBOX360 Connecting to the Media Centre Box

 

XBOX Profile Screen Shot

 

XBOX360 Rear Shot

 

Screen Output (HD Cable showing)

 

 

HD Cable end on

 

XBOX360 Front USB Ports

 

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xNTIw

[Stormwatch]

Αλλαξαν λιγο τα πραγματα στο http://www.origenxbox360.com/

[Pytzamarama]

1)Apo ta hardware specs pou postare o privateer fanike oti afta pou elega prin 3 imeres kai kapoioi zitagan link kai apodeikseis (?????pou ftasame???) isxioun.

2)To PS3 xoris skliro kai diasindesi - interaction me leitourgika pos tha einai media center (mipos tha to exei fortomeno sto memory stick )

3)Afti i emmoni me to skliro exei katadisei vareti.

Oti to xbox eixe skliro theorito xazo kai oxi console-wise.(kai kala den itan konsola to xbox - itan PC)

Tora pou iparxei optionally (kai afto isxiei dioti iparxei i Latiniki Ameriki- i NA Asia kai ta alla ftwxa meri tou planiti (sti Vrazilia vgainei kai pwleitai akoma to Sega Master System...)) pali iparxei provlima.

Opoios den mporei na dosei ta epipleon xrimata mporei kai na min mporei na paiksei kapoia online games (pou den tha eixe kai ta fraga na ta paiksei).skliro alla kat eme isxiei(atimi koinwnia...pou lene kai stis ellinikes tainies).

[Slay]

1)Apo ta hardware specs pou postare o privateer fanike oti afta pou elega prin 3 imeres kai kapoioi zitagan link kai apodeikseis (?????pou ftasame???) isxioun.

to mono poy apodeiknyei einai oti diabazete ta idia forums, an einai metafrash apo thn selida toy Hiroshige Goto tha mporoysate na to exete pei apo thn arxh.

2)To PS3 xoris skliro kai diasindesi - interaction me leitourgika pos tha einai media center (mipos tha to exei fortomeno sto memory stick )

To Dashborad toy 360 einai ston sklhro? xereis gia ti pragma milas? h apla kaneis asthriktes ypotheseis? mallon to deytero etsi?

3)Afti i emmoni me to skliro exei katadisei vareti.

Oti to xbox eixe skliro theorito xazo kai oxi console-wise.(kai kala den itan konsola to xbox - itan PC)

Bring on more Damage control' date=' meta to live chat toy Allard gia ta 2 SKU akoloythei live synenteyjh toy Moore sto G4 TV gia to idio thema me erothseis apo to koino, ayto apodeiknei oti yparxei mega thema oso kai na prospatheis na to ypobibaseis.

 

Edit:

Ayta ta media station capabilities exei na antagonistei to PS3? den nomizo na ta paei katholoy asxhma tote.

If you wish to play a DVD via the Media Centre you can not stream this - it is only avaliable over the LAN, you can only do this with a local disk.

 

One other downfall is that the Media Centre Extender can not play anything bar WMV9 encoded video, even if you do install the DIVX codecs on your main Media Centre system.

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xNTIw

Me liga logia oi video streaming dynatothtes toy arkoyntai sto na blepeis mono WMV kai mono an exeis media center pc.

[Pytzamarama]

Ta videomp3opicturoistories tha einai eite ston skliro (opoios exei skliro.Diladi to standard pack kai oxi to core pack,to PS3 ktl) eite sto PC (streaming me Windows MC or Windows Vista - ta teleftaia tha exoun en-genei ipostiriksi).

En katakleidi i MS eftiakse to Xbox360 kai ws mediacenter apo i n arhi alla kai ta nea tis OS ftiagmena gia na to ipostirizoun.

Gia to PS3 to mono multimedia pou vlepo einai i diasindesi me kana xazoipod (pragma pou to kanei idi to xbox360) kai to PSP (pou einai aksiologo mono hacked)

 

BlueRay (mexri na kikloforisei evreos kai na min gratzounietai apo trimata biskwtwn kalinixta)

 

Υψηλότερη ανάλυση HDTV για καλύτερη έξοδο ακόμα και στα πιο εξελιγμένα monitor-projectors(1080 p hello- ksereis posoi xrisimopoisan to 720p (or 480p den timamai) tou PS2?).

Theoro pos kai afti i genia consolwn den tha mporei na krataei 60fps se 1080p (se games me grafika aksiwswen-tetris sta 1080p ftiaxno kai ego pou leei o logos alla ti na to kaneis)

 

Ανοιχτό σχετικά λειτουργικό, για να μπορεί ο καθένας να προσθέσεις εφαρμογές και να μην λείψει τίποτα.(stored pou?grammeno apo poion? malon kana dashboard ennoeis me kapoies elementary media dinatotites)

 

Ταχύτερες και περισσότερες ethernet και γενικά θύρες για καλύτερη "συνδεσιμότητα" και επεκτασιμότητα (sto aniparkto antistoixo LIVE or se kapoio MS leitourgiko? (no chance)).

 

Bluetooth ενσωματωμένο , και με το wireless έχει πλάκα πως θα μπορείς άμεσα να το ανοίγεις -κλείνεις από το psp, και να βλέπεις divx-dvd στην μικρή οθόνη.(foveri fasi!!to xbox360 tha to anoigokleineis apo to controller.Den tha bo sto trip na zitiso link)

 

Υποστήριξη για videoin και εγγραφή στο HD... και γενικά έχουν φροντίσει να μην του λείψει τίποτα.(eggrafi pou?)

 

sinexeia sta dika mas tora...

Kati pou den exei anaferthei poli einai oti i MS vrike kapou stin UK ton megalo Jeff Minter (osoi den imaste pitsirikades tha thimomaste tin Llamasoft ston C64 alla kai ta Tempest2000 sto Jaguar) o opoios anelave na ftiaksei ena interactive visualization me user interaction (eos 4 users) - kati pou o idios dilose oti oneirevotan apo tis meres tou Jaguar alla den ipirxe texnologia na to ipostiriksei.

[Slay]

En katakleidi i MS eftiakse to Xbox360 kai ws mediacenter apo i n arhi alla kai ta nea tis OS ftiagmena gia na to ipostirizoun.

Media center poy DEN paizei divx/xvid/mpeg/mpeg2 para mono WMV kai ayto apo media center pc's h apo ton disko toy, an den mporeis na moy doseis link me dhlosh ekprosopoy ths M$ poy na leei to antitheto mhn mpeis ston kopo na apanthseis.

[Stormwatch]

Συνεντευξη του Chris Lewis της MS στο Computer And Videogames για το Χ360 και την ευρωπαικη αγορα.

 

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=124229