The Official PS3 topic

[Narayan]

Και τι στο καλό δεν καταλαβαίνεις πάλι ??? μια χαρά είναι τα quote' date=' τα ίδια λέμε.

1) στην [b']στήλη[/b] Local Memory ,αυτη είναι η GDDR3 μνήμη που χρησιμοποιεί η RSX.

2)H μνήμη γραφικών (Gddr) δεν είναι ή local memory του cell και είναι dedicated στην RSX.

 

ΥΓ

Local = τοπική ... ουσιαστικά λέμε τοπική μνήμη του cell την XDR (ή την cache) , τοπική και dedicated μνήμη του rsx είναι η gddr3.

 

 

Το συμπέρασμα ότι το άρθρο αναφέρεται σε άλλο είδος μνήμης εκτός της GDDR3 είναι καθαρά δικιά σου υπόθεση, την οποία μοιράζεται ένα fan site.

 

Στην παρούσα φάση δεν μπορεί να εξετασθεί η εγκυρότητα του άρθρου, ως εκ τούτου για να επιτεύξετε άμεση απόρριψή του, ερμηνέυετε τα γραφόμενα σ' αυτό όπως σας συμφέρει. Λέτε πως το άρθρο δεν κατάλαβε πως η Local Memory είναι η GDDR3, και πως μιλάει για "crippled Cell" επειδή δεν επικοινωνεί γρήγορα -άκουσον, άκουσον- με την cache του. Διότι φυσικά κανένας λογικός άνθρωπος που καταννοεί επαρκώς τους τεχνικούς όρους, δεν θα μπορούσε να δεχτεί πως ο ρυθμός ανάγνωσης της cache ενός CPU είναι 250 φορές μικρότερη από τον ρυθμό εγγραφής σ'αυτή.

 

Ως εκ τούτου, αν καταφέρετε να περάσετε στους αναγνώστες πως το άρθρο μιλάει για την cache και όχι για την dedicated μνήμη του RSX, θα καταφέρετε ταυτόχρονα την απόρριψή του. Και αν σε λίγο καιρό αποδειχθεί πως είχε δίκιο, δεν θα το θυμάται κανείς. Πραγματικά έξυπνη τακτική, δε λέω, την έχουν χρησιμοποιήσει επανελειμένα στον χώρο της πολιτικής, ίσως να υπάρχει μέλλον σ'αυτόν τον τομέα για τον moderator του myps3.

 

Κλείνοντας, παραθέτω ένα ακόμα quote από το περιβόητο άρθρο:

 

The next slide goes on to say "Don't read from local memory' date=' but write to main memory with RSX and read it from there instead", and repeats the table numbers.[/quote']

 

Και ερωτώ, λοιπόν, θα μπορούσαν να είναι τόσο αφελείς σε οποιοδήποτε τεχνολογικό site ώστε να αναφέρονται στην cache του Cell ενώ από την παραπάνω φράση είναι φανερό πως πρόκειται για δεδομένα που επεξεργάζεται ο RSX; Ο οποίος δεν έχει πρόσβαση read/write στην cache του Cell; Ακόμα και στο Beyond3D που γίνεται η σχετική συζήτηση, από την αρχή κατάλαβαν πως το άρθρο αναφέρεται στη GDDR3.

 

Cell Local Memory = PS3 Local Memory = GDDR3.

[BlizardBill]

Ως εκ τούτου' date=' αν καταφέρετε να περάσετε στους αναγνώστες πως το άρθρο μιλάει για την cache και όχι για την dedicated μνήμη του RSX, θα καταφέρετε ταυτόχρονα την απόρριψή του. [/quote']

Εγώ σε ενημέρωσα από την πρώτη στιγμή ότι είναι τόσο μα τόσο ηλίθιο το άρθρο, που δεν θα το χωράει το μυαλό σου

 

Ξαναδιάβασε το προσεκτικά, πάρε βαθιές ανάσες, και να είσαι μακριά από τοίχους όταν καταλάβεις πόσο ζώα είναι !!!

(σίγουρα δεν μιλάνε για την GDDR , γιατί τότε θα ήξεραν ότι αυτή είναι μνήμη γραφικών, δεν υπάρχει κανένα πρόβλημα ακόμα και να μην την βλέπει καθόλου η cpu, φυσικά δεν θα ήταν "crippled" ο cell λόγο έλλειψης ταχύτητας στην "local" μνήμη του, κλπ κλπ)

 

ΥΓ

Δες εδώ το κλασικό forum των υπαλλήλων της Microsfot με τα xbots... πολοι την πάτησαν με την cache των 16mb, ακόμα και κάποιοι ps3 funs .

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=19203

 

Γενικά καλύτερα να ξεχάσουμε εντελώς αυτό το άρθρο, γιατί με πιάνει απελπισία που τόσος πολύς κόσμος τρώει ότι σαβούρα και να του σερβίρουν...

[Narayan]

Βρε το διάβασα 50 φορές και δεν μιλάει πουθενά για cache του Cell. Μιλάει για "Local Memory" σε όλο το άρθρο, μας λέει "να, κοιτάχτε στον πίνακα την Local Memory", οι ρυθμοί διαμεταγωγής στον πίνακα στην στήλη Local Memory είναι ίδιοι με της GDDR3, οπότε που γράφουν ότι πρόκειται για την cache του Cell;

 

Το ότι δεν μπορεί να εκμεταλεύτει ο Cell όλη την διαθέσιμη μνήμη είναι πρόβλημα, ναι το "φουσκώνουν" πολύ στο άρθρο αλλά αν είναι αληθινό το slide πρόκειται για ένα υπαρκτό πρόβλημα που θα νευριάσει πολλούς developers. Κι όταν νευριάζουν αυτοί οι developers βρε παιδάκι μου, άστα να πάνε, το ρίχνουν στο ποτό, βρίζουν, κακομεταχειρίζονται τις οικογένειές τους και ενίοτε καθυστερούν και τα release dates λόγω των "ιδιαιτεροτήτων" του hardware.

[BlizardBill]

Το ότι δεν μπορεί να εκμεταλεύτει ο Cell όλη την διαθέσιμη μνήμη είναι πρόβλημα' date=' ναι το "φουσκώνουν" [/quote']

Εκτός του ότι ΔΕΝ είναι πρόβλημα αυτό για τις κονσόλες, το σημαντικό είναι πως Δεν είπαν αυτό το πράγμα .

 

Είπαν ότι ο cell δεν έχει local μνήμη, και αναγκάζετε να πάει στην εξωτερική που είναι πιο γρήγορη..... μια σαβούρα είναι το άρθρο που απευθύνετε σε άσχετους.

(Διάβασε το πολύ προσεκτικά και θα το καταλάβεις στο τέλος ... στα έχω κάνει και εγώ BOLD συγκεκριμένα τι είπαν.)

http://www.insomnia.gr/vb3/showpost.php?p=1168499&postcount=6069

[Narayan]

Επιχειρώ μία τελευταία φορά να σου εξηγήσω φράση-φράση και δεν ξαναναφέρομαι στο θέμα, καθώς θεωρώ πως έχει εξαντληθεί πλέον.

 

If you can write at 250x the read speed, it makes CELL local memory just about useless.

 

Αν ο Cell διαβάζει τη Local Memory (GDDR3) τόσο αργά, αυτή καθίσταται άχρηστη γι' αυτόν. Σωστό.

 

That means you do all your work out of main memory, and the whole point of local is, well, pointless.

 

Ο Cell μπορεί να χρησιμοποιεί ουσιαστικά μόνο την XDR μνήμη, και το να λέμε πως έχουμε Local μνήμη ενώ στην πράξη είναι dedicated για τον RSX δεν έχει νόημα. Σωστό κι αυτό.

 

This can lead to contention issues for the main memory bus, and all sorts of nightmarish to debug performance problems.

 

Αν συναγωνίζονται ο Cell με τον RSX για πρόσβαση στη Main Memory (XDR), θα μπουκώσει ο δίαυλος με "εφιαλτικά" αποτελέσματα. Εξαιρετικά αμφίβολο.

[BlizardBill]

Ο Cell μπορεί να χρησιμοποιεί ουσιαστικά μόνο την XDR μνήμη' date=' και το να λέμε πως έχουμε Local μνήμη ενώ στην πράξη είναι dedicated για τον RSX δεν έχει νόημα. Σωστό κι αυτό.[/quote']

Λάθος ... η GDDR είναι DEDICATED στον RSX , είναι video ram , είναι LOCAL memory της κάρτας γραφικών, όχι του cell.

(Εχει πολύ νοημα να έχουμε local (Τοπική - αποκλειστική) μνήμη για την gfx card, σχεδόν παντού έτσι γίνεται. )

 

O cell έχει 7 local μνήμες-storages (σαν την cache των pc)...

Aντε να πούμε αν θες και την XDR σαν local μνήμη του cell ( παρότι είναι main memory κοινής πρόσβασης) , αλλά OXI την GDDR3 .

[p3tran]

"ο CELL εχει 7 μνημες!" ελα ρε!! γατα ε? καλυτερα να εχει 7 ζωες παντως...

[Daredevil]

Sony Ireland Boss Says They (PS3) Face Tough Competition

In speaking to the Irish Times, Niall O'Hanrahan (Sony Ireland boss) has stated that the PS3 faces some tough competition in the next-generation console wars and that there is no guarantee Sony will mantain a position as the market leader. He also said that it's not just Nintendo and Microsoft they have to worry about, it's other forms of indirect competition such as MP3 players and even the PC platform which they should be weary of.

[privateer]

New Ken Kutaragi interview (1) @ PC Watch / Different PS3 set-ups

 

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0607/kaigai276.htm

 

Once again Hiroshige Goto conducted an interview with Ken Kutaragi and apparently this is the first segment in this new interview series. In this segment there are no revelations or new factoids but just confirmations, hopefully the following segments will contain interesting parts. Now this is my quick translation, here goes.

 

PLAYSTATION 3 evolves because it's a computer

 

Hiroshige Goto: SCEI have always been saying PLAYSTATION 3 (PS3) is not a game console but a computer. In that sense, I'd thought that it's the important point for PS3 to become a computer whether it comes with HDD standard. But it had not been made clear for a while about the standard HDD. It seems it finally reached the standard HDD through all twists and turns since 2005.

 

Ken Kutaragi: In my heart it was decided that we want to include HDD as the standard. However, there were various problems such as economic reasons, and we might have not been able to secure enough 2.5inch drives. An HDD-less version might have been planned. In that case it completely becomes a game console, but we want to do a computer.

 

With these matters, we needed resolution even though we decided to include HDD.

 

HG: For a game console HDD is an economic pressure. Unlike semiconductor chips HDD cost doesn't decrease. So it becomes 40-50$ cost-up through a life cycle of a game console. Though in the case of a game console its price is lowerd to $100-$200, it becomes difficult with HDD as the standard. Does it mean PS3 doesn't take a price model like a game console?

 

KK: After all, we don't say it's a game console (laugh) PS3 is clearly a computer unlike PSs of so far.

 

Obviously we have to make it a mature hardware to a certain degree to reduce the cost when we look at it as a game console. As the methodology, we have been doing cost reduction such as chip integration and power-supply reduction. Naturally we'll do the same thing for PS3.

 

However, as PS3 is a computer, (not only reducing the cost) but also wants to evolve. We'll want to upgrade the HDD size very soon, if new standards appear in PC we will want to support them. We may want the BD drive to write. Well, BD may not become like that though.

 

The meaning in that it's not a model but a configuration

 

HG: Since PS3 is a computer it's not bound by the limitation of the price and cost models of a game console. Is this the reason why it has HDD as the standard which is required for a computer and its hardware evolves?

 

KK: It's a computer not only in HDD but in the point that it fully adopted standard formats. The interface was PlayStation-only memory card slot in the past. But PS3 has only PC standard slots.

 

Since they are standards, of course the interfaces are open. We control no standards. You can be free because it's a computer. Also HDD can be easily upgradable for a person who can play with PC.

 

HG: Game consoles fix their hardware specs through their life cycles. But PS3 seems to approximate to PC in that it can change its configuration flexibly.

 

KK: Since PS3 is a computer there are no "models" but "configurations". This time we try to make it clear. May as well release BTO (built-to-order) list if possible (laugh) Well, but if we do it the distribution will be confused. But, with PS3, we can do BTO if we want.

HG: In an old interview you said there's no hardware called PS3 but only a meta-format. Is it possible for PS3 to do hardware configuation as long as it has the spec enough to run softwares of a certain profile?

 

KK: That's right. So every configuration is PS3.

 

HG: Is it planned that it extends its spec every year like PC?

 

KK: I think it's okay to release a (extended) configuration every year (laugh). Though I say it like a joke, Dell will do it and Apple will do it too. In PC, if you fix (the spec) for 2 years you'll be catched up. Computers should be changing, right? It's inevitable that 60GB (HDD) will become short, memory may become short too. There are many possibilities.

 

HG: Is it possible that a PS3 configuration with augmented computing power that exceeds the spec to run the PS3 game meta-format appears?

 

KK: Yes. If what you want to do increases, it's natural. Of course, it depends on how far what you want to do goes though.

 

The first party showed the PS3 title standard at E3

 

HG: At E3 first-party titles in development were playable, which had an impact.

 

KK: Advance forcasts said something like "there'll be no playable games" (laugh). No one expected that many playable games. At least, they wouldn't think playable games reached that level.

 

Generally speaking, a first-party should not stick out, but we showed the broad range since it's our responsibility. We have the responsibility to show the standard first.

 

In the days of PlayStation 1 there were arcade games at the top as the standard softwares. So SEGA and Namco that could port arcade games were strong. Games were made with arcade games as the standard.

 

But, this time I think PS3 excels all standards. Because of that, we thought they can't aim where they should go unless we show the standard with confidence. As the responsibility of the first party, we have to show it not only in the platform but also in softwares and other parts. The standard is like this even months before the release. Until the PS3 release in November it evolves further and further. I think it could become a kind of the standard.

 

HG: Relatively third parties were not noticeable. It seems there's a wide gap between the first party and third parties this time.

 

KK: For better or worse E3 was full of the first party. After all, they know the hardware well in the company and there is a horizontal connection in the SCEI global studio. For this event we created the demo to share various information, engines, and know-how.

 

Until then our studios are a conglomerate of studios which stick to (SCEI organizational) regions. About half a year before, including Harrison (Phil Harrison, President, Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios) and Yamauchi (Kazunori Yamauchi, President, Polyphony Digital), we combined studios. They went offsite often, and as for E3 all studios exchanged one another and discussed everything. So it became like that.

 

We want top guns to show their skill on PS3

 

HG: The computing power of PS3 Cell far exceeds PC. Though it depends on the kind of computing, its processing performance is outstanding. But its programming model is complicated and the hurdle is high. It seems third-party develpers polarize between those who can't handle Cell and those who are very excited about Cell.

 

KK: Even at the time of PlayStation 1 those who were into 2D graphics were like "we can't handle PlayStation, I can't understand what it does, but it's OK as it has the library."

 

It's no doubt that game consoles are becoming computers today. As the result (programming) becomes different from so far. It's strange that they say it's hard to create a software when the processing performance of a game console gets higher. Nobody says he/she can't create a software because clockspeed, memory and HDD of PC get better and heavier. We want top gun (programmers) to show their skill on PS3.

 

HG: For now actually, developments on PS3 rely on programmers' talents and efforts. There are not yet enough libraries and middlewares to lessen the burden on developers.

 

KK: We continue to add middlewares. But, actually, middleware is too much for one and not enough for two. It's been always like that. It's not always true that relying on a middleware makes a good game. At least in PS3, it becomes disastrous if you don't know where to use middlewares and where to be careful.

 

HG: Microsoft try to realize the programming framework which was successful on PC on a game console too. They are adding standardized socket APIs on the OS.

 

KK: Since Microsoft is coming from PC, they say things are like that in the world of PC. But, if I look at it, I think it has no evolution.

 

HG: In the previous console generation, the directions of SCEI, Microsoft, Nintendo, these 3 companies were different but the difference was not so big. But, this time 3 companies turn to completely different directions. There are dramatic differences.

 

KK: Isn't it good if it can energize the market? If they say the same things they'll end up killing each other.

[privateer]

 

- - Games on PS3 are running at the PS3 with "basic configuration"

 

- Softwares will have different relationship with hardware(include none gaming) in future.

 

- Software module will be made inside the PS3(←my direct translation, such as OS?) so PS3 will have no problem adopting new hardware parts(this doesn't mean you can upgrade but just different versions of PS3).

 

- Thus two models of PS3 are actually two different configurations, thus there might be other configurations in future, such as, enhanced version of CELL, more memory etc.. (I personally believe this is for none gaming software uses) So the Higher-End model of PS3 might be released in future.

[john2gr]

Εγώ σας ξαναλέω. Δώστε μου το PC σας όταν αγοράσετε το PS3 σας αλλά μετά μην κλαίγεστε έτσι .Βέβαια θέλω να μου ανεβάζετε και κάνα screenshot με τα dvd rips,dvd burnings,emulation,C++ coding και όλα τα σχετικά που θα μπορεί να σας προσφέρει το PC που ονομάζεται PS3,χαχαχαχαχαχαχαχαχαχαχαχαχαχα :D

[privateer]

Proswpika 8a me xalage an eixa dwsei 600+euro gia to ps3 kai thn epomenh xronia ebgaze h sony neo sku me kalytera xarakthristika :evil:

[BlizardBill]

Τα νέα χαρακτηριστικά θα είναι για pc χρήση ουσιαστικά , υποστήριξη νέων format , μεγαλύτερη μνήμη για home pc προγράμματα που την χρειάζονται ίσως, και τέτοια... δεν θα συμβαίνει κάθε χρόνο.

[Daredevil]

Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom HD Gameplay

[privateer]

Kutaragi Announces Plans To Confuse PS3 Gamers Even More

 

Mind boggling. They are actually planning on techno-schisming the PS3's user base even more. The advantage of consoles over PCs from a development standpoint lies mainly in the fact that it's a stable platform with one real configuration. But Sony is basically approaching the PS3 like a computer... a move sure to frustrate developers as much as it confuses gamers.

 

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ken-kutaragi/kutaragi-announces-plans-to-confuse-ps3-gamers-even-more-179042.php