The Official PS3 topic

[Wolfidis]

privateer

PS3 dev talks about getting fired for talking

 

http://www.ps3week.com/blogs/ps3week...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

 

Ακόμα ένας μελλοντικός υπάλληλος της Μικροσοφτ!!

 

nestorn

Motorstorm launch title

 

http://www.evos.net/html/simul/esp.html

 

Evolution Studios has for the last 5 years, produced the official WRC series of

PS2 rally games for Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, the most recent of

which “WRC Rally Evolved” has the most sophisticated and realistic driving

physics model ever, for a driving game. Evolution is currently contracted by

Sony to produce a ‘next-gen’ PS3 launch title called MotorStorm.

Αν το παιχνίδι είναι αυτό που δείχνει τότε θα αφήσει εποχή! Το μόνο παιχνίδι με αμάξια που έπαιξα αρκετά τον τελευταίο καιρό ήταν το ΦΛΑΤΑΟΥΤ, το ΜΟΤΟΣΤΟΡΜ ομως δείχνει 10 φορές καλύτερο. Κριμα που το 360 δεν είχε κατι παρόμοιο κατα το λανσάριμα του....

[nestorn]

Αν το παιχνίδι είναι αυτό που δείχνει τότε θα αφήσει εποχή!

 

Για να δούμε...για να δούμε....

 

 

 

Aν και δεν είμαι και πολύ fan των racing games αν τα γραφικά είναι έτσι, σίγουρα

θα είναι αρκετά ενδιαφέρον...

[nestorn]

The Japanese giant video game magazine, namely Famitsu , made a survey with

regard to waiting of the various Next-Gen consoles by the developers, retailers

and the players....

 

The console most expected for 2006

 

1. PS3 - 53.7% developers - 56.9% retailers - 46.3% players

 

2. Revolution - 41.4% developers - 43.9% retailers - 45.8% players

 

3. Xbox360 - 2.4% developers - 1.7% retailers - 7.9% players

 

Πολύ σημαντική πληροφορία αν αναλογιστεί κανείς οτι ερωτήθηκαν 47 developers....

To PS3 φαίνεται να έχει ήδη κερδίσει τα dev studios στην Ιαπωνία...

[dreaming123]

Φαντάζεστε το gran turismo?Θα χτυπάς στο game και θα έχει γρατσουνιά και το αυτοκίνητο που έχεις στο γκαράζ...

Ευτυχώς φέυγω για φαντάρος και δεν εμπλέκομαι στο xbox360 vs ps3 αλλά μόλις απολυθώ θα υπάρχει ιδέα ποια θα έχει τα καλύτερα games γιατι εγω τα games κοιτάω και όχι τις κονσόλες.

[ababapanos]

iparhei kamia programatismeni parousiasi episima tou ps3 prin tin kikloforia tou? imerominia episimis kikloforias stin iaponia klp?

[xrest]

The Japanese giant video game magazine' date=' namely Famitsu , made a survey with

regard to waiting of the various Next-Gen consoles by the developers, retailers

and the players....

 

The console most expected for 2006

 

1. [b']PS3 - 53.7% developers[/b] - 56.9% retailers - 46.3% players

 

2. Revolution - 41.4% developers - 43.9% retailers - 45.8% players

 

3. Xbox360 - 2.4% developers - 1.7% retailers - 7.9% players

 

Πολύ σημαντική πληροφορία αν αναλογιστεί κανείς οτι ερωτήθηκαν 47 developers....

To PS3 φαίνεται να έχει ήδη κερδίσει τα dev studios στην Ιαπωνία...

de to lambanw idiaitera ipopsi mou gia ena k mono ena logo.ti leksi "waiting".giati na iparxei expectation gia mia konsola pou eidi kikloforei,k kseroun oloi ti prosferei?ennow to 360 fisika

[nestorn]

de to lambanw idiaitera ipopsi mou gia ena k mono ena logo.ti

leksi "waiting".giati na iparxei expectation gia mia konsola pou eidi kikloforei' date='k

kseroun oloi ti prosferei?ennow to 360 fisika[/quote']

 

Είναι δικαιολογημένη αυτή η τοποθέτησή σου και θα μπορούσε να είναι σωστή

αλλά δυστυχώς δεν είναι έτσι...Για να καταλάβεις τι εννοώ δές παρακάτω το

υπόλοιπο άρθρο....

 

The console number 1 in 2006

 

Developers/Retailers

 

1. Nintendo DS - 49.9%/38.8%

2. PS3 - 16.7%/31.5%

3. Revolution - 10.0%/12.3%

4. PSP - 5.0%/1.7%

5. Xbox 360 - 1.7%/1.7%

 

 

General classification of the players

 

1. PS3 - 40.3%

2. DS - 32.6%

3. PS2 - 11.8%

4. Revolution - 11.5%

5. Xbox 360 - 2.5%

6. PSP - 0.3%

 

Όπως βλέπεις το Nintendo DS εξακολουθεί να βρίσκεται πολύ ψηλά στις

προτιμήσεις των Ιαπώνων developers....Και δεν είναι καινούριο μηχάνημα...

Φαντάζομαι το "waiting" έχει να κάνει με το πόσα περιμένουν να δούν ακόμα

απο ένα μηχάνημα (απο πλευράς δυνατοτήτων, παιχνιδιών, υποστήρηξης κτλ)...

[xrest]

Είναι δικαιολογημένη αυτή η τοποθέτησή σου και θα μπορούσε να είναι σωστή

αλλά δυστυχώς δεν είναι έτσι...Για να καταλάβεις τι εννοώ δές παρακάτω το

υπόλοιπο άρθρο....

 

The console number 1 in 2006

 

Developers/Retailers

 

1. Nintendo DS - 49.9%/38.8%

2. PS3 - 16.7%/31.5%

3. Revolution - 10.0%/12.3%

4. PSP - 5.0%/1.7%

5. Xbox 360 - 1.7%/1.7%

 

 

General classification of the players

 

1. PS3 - 40.3%

2. DS - 32.6%

3. PS2 - 11.8%

4. Revolution - 11.5%

5. Xbox 360 - 2.5%

6. PSP - 0.3%

 

Όπως βλέπεις το Nintendo DS εξακολουθεί να βρίσκεται πολύ ψηλά στις

προτιμήσεις των Ιαπώνων developers....Και δεν είναι καινούριο μηχάνημα...

Φαντάζομαι το "waiting" έχει να κάνει με το πόσα περιμένουν να δούν ακόμα

απο ένα μηχάνημα (απο πλευράς δυνατοτήτων' date=' παιχνιδιών, υποστήρηξης κτλ)...[/quote']

sorry alla exoun stin lista 2 mixanimata pou den exoun kikloforisei kan.den antilegw oti to ps3 thanai prwto,alla de mporw na blepw tetoies listes,k eidika apo to famitsu.k giati to revo na min einai prwto de to katalabainw auto.stin iapwnia to perimenoun sa treloi k kapoia stigmi se mia apo tis polles kataramenes analiseis to revo itan prwto se expectation..

anyway i alitheia einai oti de lene kati pou de prokeitai na simbei stin iapwnia.apla to waiting emena mou leei alla,k to post auto einai profitiko

[privateer]

Report from Prudential Equity

 

Destination PlayStation (Miami, Florida, http://www.destinationplaystation.com, February 27 – March 3) - The 6th annual Destination PlayStation is Sony’s industry-only retailer conference not open to the public. The event provides retail partners and industry participants the ability to preview important Sony products ahead of E3. Sony has in the past released key product launch info at Destination PlayStation, for instance at the conference in 2004 they officially delayed the PSP.

 

DevStation - PS3 Developer Conference (London, http:/www.devstation.scee.com, March 1-2). DevStation is a Sony-sponsored developer conference open only to the development community that is this year exclusively dedicated to the PlayStation 3 platform. We expect details on the final specs of the PS3 to be revealed at this event.

 

PEG PS3 Assumptions:

 

• Launch Date: Japan (June/July ‘06), North America (November ‘06), Europe (early ‘07).

 

• Pricing: 40,000-50,000 yen ($349 - $449).

 

• Launch quantities: PEG model 1.5M in the U.S. (note: could be conservative. Recently Pioneer executive Andy Parson said in an interview to website Digital Bits, "The PS3 is launching right at the forefront of Blu-ray disc. If Sony ships the kind of numbers we expect them to this year, that will provide a very rapid growth of players out there hungry for titles. We've been hearing between 4 (million) and 7 million (PS3s) could ship." We assume that’s a global number.

 

• Games: Similar to the Xbox 360 launch, we expect only a few strong titles at launch. In fact we think Sony would ship the PS3 even if the launch lineup is weak to ensure Blu-Ray penetrates the market this holiday season; after all Sony launched the PS2 back in 2000 with only 1 Sony-developed game, a forgettable fireworks simulation game called Fantavision (sold a meek 50,000 units per NPD). The majority of initial PS3 games will most likely be sequels of existing franchises you can already play on the PS2 or Xbox/Xbox 360. Based on our evaluation of early cross-platform games (games that will be available for either the Xbox 360 or the PS3), there seems to be virtually no visual difference between them, despite Sony’s claims of the PS3’s technical superiority. In a recent Forbes interview, Andrew Goldman, chief executive of Pandemic Studios, says it will take years to fully exploit Cell's capabilities (the new IBM CPU in the PS3). Sony has confirmed 4,000 PS3 development kits have been shipped. GameStop is listing most PS3 games with a 3/1/06 ship date, but we expect that date to slip, and Metal Gear Solid 4 with a 12/1/06 ship date.

 

• Expect: Hardware production delays similar to the Xbox 360 and the PS2.

[xrest]

New PS3 details emerge

 

 

When it comes to online console gaming, Microsoft has clearly led the way in recent years - let's face it, Xbox Live is a far superior service to Sony's, er, what's it called again?

 

But Sony is determined to change all that with its next-generation console, according to the latest issue of US magazine PSM. Scans of an article posted on the PlayStation.com forum (sorry, no link - it's the law, you know) reveal that Sony is hoping to "go way beyond mimicking Xbox Live" with an all-singing, all-dancing online service. And that's not all - some very interesting details regarding the PS3's multimedia capabilities have been revealed, too.

 

Apparently the new online service, titled PlayStation Network, won't just offer matchmaking and ranking lists. You can expect an iTunes-type store that lets you download films and music, and you'll be able to use the console as a Location Free Player. Which means you'll be able to upload stuff from your PS3 onto your PSP, and watch Blu-Ray and DVD movies on your handheld.

 

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Rather excitingly, the PS3 will act as a digital video recorder, so you can digitally store all your favourite telly programmes just like with Sky+ and TiVo. Plus, you'll have the option to control the DVR function using your PSP.

 

As previously announced, the PS3 will play Blu-Ray discs, but apparently that shouldn't push up the price too much. It seems the Cell and RSX can take care of things for the most part, so you won't be paying what you would for a standalone Blu-Ray player on top of your basic console price. Whatever that may be, of course...

 

Other snippets include news that the final PS3 dev kit is running faster than was initially predicted, and that there are loads of games currently in development for the console which have yet to be announced - "many more than people realise." Plus we're told that the PS3 will get regular firmware functionality updates, just like the PSP.

 

The question still remains as to when we can expect Sony's new baby to arrive. According to PSM, US developers are being told to prepare for a "fall" release - which, if past history is anything to go by, translates into European as "Some time before summer next year, if you're lucky."

 

So just how much of the PSM article is accurate? Who knows - looks like we'll just have to wait and see what they come up with at E3...

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=62751

[nfs11]

Α καλό και αυτό. matchmaking θα είναι ένα από τα χαρτιά της Sony για την network παρουσία της. 'Οντως έχει κρυφούς άσσους στο μανίκι της.

 

 

Other snippets include news that the final PS3 dev kit is running faster than was initially predicted

 

Κοίτα να δεις τι γίνεται στο κόσμο. Μπράβο τους

 

and that there are loads of games currently in development for the console which have yet to be announced - "many more than people realise."

 

Α μας κάνει και εκπληξούλες !! 'Ενα έχω να πω. Στο hype και τον επηρεασμό που καταφέρνει στους "gamers" δεν υπάρχει αντίστοιχη εταιρεία.

[privateer]

SCEI and PS3 development kit schedule announced

 

Sony Computer Entertainment held their yearly summary meeting for the Playstation, the PlayStation Meeting 2005. In that meeting, new information regarding the Playstation 3 was released.

 

First of all, the scheduled launch of the PS3 in the spring of 2006 was reconfirmed, and immediately before that, a pre-event called the “Playstation Conference” will be held.

 

At first, SCEI used the Cell Evaluation System to do software stack validation. This machine was supposedly used as a debugging machine, used in internal company labs, and it was also provided to a select group of vendors for evaluation. It has a 2.4 GHz Cell processor, 256MB XDR DRAM, and an nVidia graphics board.

 

Next, SCEI developed the much-anticipated “PS3 Evaluation System” for customer evaluation. The machine number is CEB-2030 and the codename is “Cytology.” SCEI has been distributing these machines to software vendors since this spring. The specs of the PS3 Evaluation System will be explained later, but basically it has a 2.4GHz Cell, 512MB of XDR DRAM, and a GeForce 7800 (G70).

 

In December 2005, SCEI is scheduled to release the “PS3 Reference Tool”, which has nearly the same architecture as the actual PS3. It will have a 3.2 GHz Cell, the RSX, 512MB of XDR DRAM, and a BD drive. Currently, it is set to be a 2U rack mount unit, but vertical configurations are being considered.

 

SCEI will continue to provide PS3 Evaluation Systems until November. Currently, 450 units have been sent out, and will continue to increase according to the supply figures shown below, to answer the intensive demand for the machine.

 

August – 200 units

Sept – 300 units

October – 3000 units

November – 3000+ units

 

CELL and XDR DRAM are 75% of PS3’s capability

 

The PS3 Evaulation System differs from the final PS3 specs in various ways.

 

First of all, the Cell operating frequency is 2.4 GHz, which is 75% of the production board. In the case of the CPU, it is not uncommon to hold down the clock speed until validation is completed. Of course, while it is not possible for this machine to perform at the PS3 final spec, the knowledge that it is at 75% [and then compensating for it] should be enough to get by.

 

The memory is XDR DRAM, and the Cell chip used is connected to the XDR DRAM by the XDR DRAM interface (XIO). This is also not full-spec. At least in June, the XDR DRAM date transfer rate in the PS3 Evaluation System was held to 2.4 Gbps. The PS3’s XDR DRAM data rate will be at 3.2 Gbps, so this is also a 75% capability.

 

The XDR DRAM data rate drop can be seen as in sync with the CPU clock speed drop. What this shows is the possibility that the Cell CPU core and the XDR DRAM interface were developed at the same time. Simultaneous development is easier, and has other advantages. Particularly, in the case of CPU-memory, latency is a very important factor, so simultaneous development has many advantages.

 

Most importantly, the XDR DRAM rate may have been dropped to compensate for the yield rate of the new XDR DRAM. It might be difficult to create 3.2 Gbps XDR DRAM samples at this early stage. If we think about the DRAM cell core clock (Internal Column Frequency), 3.2Gbps XDR DRAM is rather difficult. When XDR DRAM mass production for the PS3 begins, it will be moved to a 90nm process, but for now, it is being built on 100-110nm processes, which is bad for yield rates. Additionally, in the PS3 Evaluation System, RIMM (Rambus memory modules) are used. These modules might eat into the timing margins.

 

The PS3 Evaluation System introduced in this conference has a 512 MB of XDR DRAM. This is twice the 256 MB of the PS3. This increase might be due to the RIMM modules. In June, it was explained that the PS3 Evaluation System was designed to also be able to use RIMM. This large amount of memory is meant for verification [appraisal, testing] purposes.

 

The XDR DRAM interface is configurable, so it has high flexibility. It is an x16 interface, but is also capable being configured as x8 or x4. XDR DRAM has a point-to-point connection with the Cell chip. For example, by changing from x16 to x8, one channel can support connections with twice as many DRAM chips. The RIMM module takes advantage of this property, allowing one channel to support 2 RIMM while maintaining a point-to-point connection. (Trans. note: by context it is clear that “point-to-point” means a direct connection between two ICs, with no intervening chip in between.) On the other hand, the final PS3 design has the XDR DRAM memory directly integrated into the motherboard.

 

 

Currently, the graphics are connected by PCI-Express x4

 

In the PS3 Evaluation System, the PC-centric GeForce 7800 GTX (G70) is used as a substitute for the RSX. The RSX and G70 are made from about the same shaders, and the internal shader architecture is predicted to be quite similar. Because of that, as far as graphics are concerned, using the G70 as a base for software development should not create many problems. Shader programs should be able to run as if the two chips were the same.

 

However, the G70 has a lower clock speed than the RSX, and will certainly have some level of performance difference. However, an even greater difference than the internal GPU performance is the interface.

 

In the PS3, the Cell and RSX are connected by a parallel interface developed by Rambus called FlexIO (Redwood), which has a wide 35GB/sec bandwidth (20GB/sec down, 15GB/sec up). However, the G70, which has a PCI Express x16 interface, cannot be directly connected to the Cell’s FlexIO interface.

 

Therefore, in the PS3 Evaluation System the G70 is collected to the south bridge by PCI Express. In the June PS3 Evaluation System, they were connected by PCI Express x4. The south bridge used by the PS3 Evaluation System is basically the same as the south bridge developed by IBM for the Cell Workstation. Because of that, the chip has peripheral I/O PCI Express x4 meant for server applications. In the final version, PCI Express will disappear from the south bridge, but currently, the G70 is connected by it.

 

For that reason, currently the PCI Express x16 interface in the G70 cannot realize its full potential. According to the spec of the south bridge, Cell has only a 5 GB/sec FlexIO interface to the south bridge. If we assume the same is true for the PS3 Evaluation System, it will have drastically less bandwidth than the actual machine. Furthermore, the G70 is connected to the south bridge by PCI Express x4, which, at 2GB/sec, is even less. If we compare Cell->GPU bandwidth, we see that the PS3 Evaluation System is only 1/20 of the PS3.

 

According to SCEI, in the PS3 Evaluation System, the graphics side has been increased to 512MB of GDDR3 memory. In the actual PS3, there will be 256 MB of GDDR3. The reason for this increase in the video side memory is to allow buffering of data into the graphics side when the bus is idle. However, it will be difficult to use the PS3 Evaluation System to effectively evaluate the wide connection between the Cell and RSX in the PS3.

 

Additionally, the GDDR3 interface of the RSX is 128bits wide, whereas the G70 is 256bits wide, which means if both use x32 512Mbit DRAM chips, the G70 can support twice as much memory.

 

The special characteristic of the PS3 is the connection between Cell and RSX

 

The big special characteristic of PS3 Graphics is the connection between Cell and RSX. The RSX itself has a similar architecture to the G70, but the host interface for the G70 is meant for the PC and is completely different. The G70 uses PCI Express x16 to connect to the chipset as 8GB/sec (4GB/sec one-way), and it cannot directly access main memory. In contrast, the RSX has a 35GB/sec (20GB/sec down, 15GB/sec up) direct connection to the Cell, and can directly render from the main memory on the Cell side.

 

This is a big difference, because it allows a completely different way of using the GPU from PC architectures, SCEI explained. First of all, because the bus is wider, the Cell can perform a great amount of geometry operations, then send the vertex data [to the RSX]. Conversely, the RSX side can easily send data back to the Cell.

 

“The Cell processor can do both pre-processing and post-processing. For example, tessellation, dot filling, etc… Cell can perform physics processing like collision and motion calculations, and transform the vertex array.” said David B. Kirk, Chief Scientist of nVidia.

 

SCEI basically expects higher abstraction levels to be processed by Cell, and the details (like vertexes and pixels) to be processed by the GPU. The is reasonable – for example, in the case where the CPU side handles geometry transformation, collision detection, which is important in games, is not a problem. In the case where the GPU handles geometry transformation, if the data is not sent back to the CPU, clipping issues may occur. In the case of the PS3, the Cell side can perform transformations, and even if the GPU is used for transformation, it is comparatively easy to send the data back to the CPU side.

 

In architectures up to now, either the CPU or the GPU have been the bottleneck. It this is not resolved, we cannot go any further. To face this, in PS3 architecture, if the GPU becomes the bottleneck, it can shift work to the Cell, if the Cell becomes the bottleneck it can send work to the GPU, shifting the workload. For example, according to the software, the Cell side can perform more graphics processing, or, oppositely, or easily make an adjustment to leave the graphics work to the GPU, it was explained. In summary, between the CPU and GPU programmable processors, a flexible balance adjustment can be done.

 

In previous PC architectures, because they were limited by the CPU<->GPU pipe, geometry operations were held to a certain limit, and how rich an environment you can create within that limit became the main technical challenge. In contrast, the PlayStation2-type game consoles created large amounts of polygons, but after that it did not have the expressiveness of PCs. (Trans. note: probably means that PS2 is less capable in applying different effects to polygons than the PC, despite pumping out more polygons.) In the case of the PS3, both are possible, with the flexibility to balance the two.

 

However, in the case of the currently available PS3 Evaluation System, because of restrictions in the architecture, it is not possible to evaluate the balancing [of Cell and RSX]. This is a difficulty and a weakness, but, if we state it differently, software demos on the current systems still do not demonstrate the full potential of PS3. It is possible that the actual PS3 will have performance greater than current demos.

 

Significantly, when in comes to bus bandwidth, the Xbox 360 CPU-GPU connection is 21.6GB/sec, which is much wider than PCs. A wide-bandwidth CPU-GPU connections in not just the characteristic of PS3 in the next-generation consoles.

 

PS2’s simple boot-up started with firmware, and it loaded the OS and libraries from the disk. In comparison the PS3 starts from “Haipaabaiza” (Hyper-visor?) firmware. Haipaabaiza is a type of VMM (Virtual Machine Manager) software, which runs not on top but under the OS, providing machine virtualization. Even, when using only the Cell OS for gameplay, Haipaabaiza will always start first, and on top of that runs the pre-defined OS (guest OS). The OS, along with Haipaabaiza, creates a two-layer image. This basic OS layering is the same in the PS3 Evaluation System.

 

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0722/kaigai199.htm

[ProEvoFan]

po po po!!! etsi na sas vlepo na sas troei o panikos! pou mou kserete kai olo to marketing plan tis sony...ainteeeee....oti de ftanei i alepou....

 

PS: an pote tyxei kai sas pei i sony na doulepsete(an exete spoudasei kati tetoio pou na eksigi ti proslipsi sas!!) gia aytin, min pate! peite tous ayta pou lete edo... anyway:!: :!: :!:

[xrest]

po po po!!! etsi na sas vlepo na sas troei o panikos! pou mou kserete kai olo to marketing plan tis sony...ainteeeee....oti de ftanei i alepou....

 

PS: an pote tyxei kai sas pei i sony na doulepsete(an exete spoudasei kati tetoio pou na eksigi ti proslipsi sas!!) gia aytin' date=' min pate! peite tous ayta pou lete edo... anyway:!: :!: :!:[/quote']

to post sou gia pio pragma apeuthinetai?eksigeis ligo?pia alepou k pios panikos?gia mia konsola iparxei panikos?

anyway,post tetoiou stil na apeuthinontai me parathesi pros apantisei se auton pou thes.

k tha sou pw k kati allo.osa paidia apo dw antipoliteuontai to ps3 einai giati theloun na doun ena poli kalitero proion apo auto pou iparxei twra,wste na to apoktisoun k auto.

k kaneis den eipe oti kserei ti tha kanei i sony.oloi perimenoume ti tha pei,wste na einai k episimo.alla otan ena proion etoimazetai na kikloforisei k den iparxei kati episimo mpaineis stin diadikasia tou na ektimas k na sizitas gia to ti mporei na ginei klp.pios o logos twn forums tote?

[nfs11]

po po po!!! etsi na sas vlepo na sas troei o panikos! pou mou kserete kai olo to marketing plan tis sony...ainteeeee....oti de ftanei i alepou....

 

PS: an pote tyxei kai sas pei i sony na doulepsete(an exete spoudasei kati tetoio pou na eksigi ti proslipsi sas!!) gia aytin' date=' min pate! peite tous ayta pou lete edo... anyway:!: :!: :!:[/quote']

 

 

Ε τι να κάνουμε, μας πιάνει ο πανικός όλους εμάς τους gamers και γι'αυτό κάνουμε τέτοια posts. Λογικό δεν είναι; Πλησιάζει το τέλος της κονσόλας μας τώρα που θα κυκλοφορήσει το ps3 και κλαίμε τα λεφτά μας.

 

Παρακαλώ κάποιον να δημοσιεύσει τις τελευταίες πωλήσεις στην Ιαπωνία γιατί έχω μια ανησυχία. Ευχαριστώ